Topic: HELP with ESC's (Read 3686 times)

frogman3 · « **on:** July 10, 2021, 04:22:25 pm »

HELP PLEASE could any body advise me with a problem im havin on my tiger as i just wired it up all 4 motors an 2 x 40 amp viper ESC 's fitted with 30amp fuses an ive taken out the red wire on one ESC an one ESC DRIVES the back two motors ok an the other ESC should drive the front motors i treid it as this is a BECC system AN when i switched on every thing looked ok as all the lights an the one in the R/X came on but when i treid to open the throttle to get all four motors running they came on for a few seconds an ran an then they started to cut out an then all four stopped completely so it makes me wonder if this is a power shortage an WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF I REJIONED THE RED WIRE ON THE OTHER ESC ? SO CAN ANYONE HELP
Chris

Stan · « **Reply #1 on:** July 10, 2021, 04:34:32 pm »

Do Not reconnect the other red wire.

Stan

Plastic - RIP · « **Reply #2 on:** July 10, 2021, 05:54:55 pm »

Quote from: frogman3 on July 10, 2021, 04:22:25 pm

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF I REJIONED THE RED WIRE ON THE OTHER ESC ? SO CAN ANYONE HELP
Chris

If you connect both red wires, the little power regulators in each ESC will fight each other trying to set their output voltage - within a fraction of a second, all the smoke-fairies will escape.

It's not totally clear from your post - do you have a separate power supply to the receiver too? Try unplugging all the other systems from the receiver apart from the two ESCs for the motors and try again.

frogman3 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 10, 2021, 07:31:32 pm »

Quote from: plastic on July 10, 2021, 05:54:55 pm

If you connect both red wires, the little power regulators in each ESC will fight each other trying to set their output voltage - within a fraction of a second, all the smoke-fairies will escape.

It's not totally clear from your post - do you have a separate power supply to the receiver too? Try unplugging all the other systems from the receiver apart from the two ESCs for the motors and try again.

HI Plastic thats just what the set up is main batt 12amphr SLA an the the main live wire in to a fuse box with a 30 amp fuses x2 one for each 40 AMP VIPER ESC 's an the R/X takes its power through one lead from one ESC an the other ESC is into a Y lead to the R/X an the red wire has been removed best i can exsplain it
CHRIS

RST · « **Reply #4 on:** July 10, 2021, 07:51:07 pm »

Well to state common practice, the recommended is to fuse each motor at just under stall current when running more than one motor off each esc. So one might look for 4 fuses in this respect. Plus many of us forget that main fuse off the battery itself.

For the problem with the esc's follow the simple fault finding plan...

Unplug one esc, does it work off the radio or with a servo tester?
Unplug that esc, try the same with the other and see if it works
How many esc's, servos etc are you running off the radio? (Carson if I recall?). If too many things the bec from one esc may not be enough. If it were me I'd be prepared to check things out with a 4xAA ni-mh pack connected to the receiver, but obviously then no red wire from any esc may be connected at the same time.

I'd go KISS, strip all the connections and try each one in turn individually then start combining and take note at which point things stop working.

Rich

PS, I'm finding with all my Viper esc's if I try and move the sticks before they've done their self learning thing then they all play up afterwards. They can take a few seconds after switch-on to work.

frogman3 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 10, 2021, 08:49:50 pm »

HI RST well ive done what you said about running just one ESC an on the two rear motors an they run fine forwards an back an to test the second ESC i'll have to reconect the red wire an try it but i will disconnect the other ESC so no problems blowin up anything an yes ive waited till the ESC sets it self up an no different
chris

RST · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2021, 09:12:23 pm »

Hi Chris, just remember for that set up you should really in best practice have at least 4 fuses, one per motor as you are commoning up. I know you spent allot of time on this model so skimping may hurt for a couple of quids worth of parts.

...Other thing. I hate just about every propshaft out there these days they thread them more than the prop tube allows for. No chance of a set of shafts binding is there? Easy to be caught out that way!

Rich

chas · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2021, 10:26:29 pm »

All good advice, but check the voltage of your sla on load, i.e trying to run the motors. It should be reading 13 volts plus. 12 volts or less and that will be your main suspect.

frogman3 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 11, 2021, 08:49:48 am »

.Othe[/size]r thing. I hate just about every propshaft out there these days they thread them more than the prop tube allows for. No chance of a set of shafts binding is there? Easy to be caught out that way!
rich quote

HI RICH NO NO PROBLEM WITH THE SHAFTS AS THEY ALL TURN EASY BY HAND SO THEY ARE NOT LOCKIN UP
CHRIS[/font]

malcolmfrary · « **Reply #9 on:** July 11, 2021, 09:04:12 am »

SLA batteries have never been good at providing continuous heavy current. A few seconds, like starting a car, OK. A few minutes, no.
As described, the problem sounds like the SLA not being able to maintain its voltage (OK, its a 12AH, but I didn't notice the voltage), either because it isn't fully charged or its not holding its charge or it just can't supply heavy current for more than a few seconds anyway. Or the load is more than expected.
Unless a lot of ballast is needed, NiMH packs of the same capacity are much lighter and far better behaved. In the old days, SLA were the only game in town, and were tolerated. Nowadays there are much better alternatives.

The ESCs have a built-in BEC to provide a regulated voltage to their own internal circuits and, via the red wire, to the radio and whatever is plugged into it. As has been said, it is bad practice to connect more than one supply together, so only one BEC in circuit at any one time. For testing by swapping ESCs about, it is better to use a separate battery for the radio and have both red wires disconnected.
Using a servo tester is also highly recommended. They don't just test servos. They can test anything that would look like a servo to the radio.

chas · « **Reply #10 on:** July 11, 2021, 10:18:35 am »

Thanks Malcolm, I did indeed misread a/h for voltage, but the same check applies. If it's a 6 volt sla, then it should be reading at least 6.5 volts on load. The smaller reserve of voltage would make the sla even more of a suspect, as many escs cut out around 5.5 volts.
I'd bet that undervolt sla batteries account for a massive proportion of problems in models.
Of course, I could be wrong to suspect the battery, but a 30 second check would find out.
Charles

frogman3 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 11, 2021, 05:05:45 pm »

HI ALL well i'll put that right its a 12v 12amp hr SLA BATTERY an ive used these for yrs an had plenty of running time with my nimitz carrier an that had 4 grupner 600 motors in it an never had any probs but this is my first time with this BECC SYSTEM i must admit im not impressed i think the 40meg was far better an easyier to wire up as thats what i had again in my nimitz but thank you guys for your replys an ive a freind comin over tomorrow to have a look so see what happens from there
all the best all chris

Stan · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2021, 05:56:09 pm »

Hi Chris this picture shows four motors fitted in my Missouri model. You will note I have not fitted fuses to every motor albeit the motors have a low stall current. The fuses will be rated at at the stall current of two motors the BECC system works fine. I suspect your battery may be the problem on test the Missouri was powered using a gel cell battery with no problems at all. Can you supply pictures of your installation? I take it your vipers are showing the normal green red lights. Should they show a solid red light this would indicate a signal failure.

Stan.

frogman3 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2021, 06:18:21 pm »

HI STAN yes i will show some linkpicks but have got to load them up to imgbb first but i have typed out my wirein system an here it is
but i'll try an exsplain my wirein layout i have a main batt 12v 12 amp hr positive off it to a fuses box x 2 fuses so the postive wire is soldered together the to go through two 30 amp fuse as the ESC are 40 amp an both positve wires come out from the fuses box an each postive connects to the positive on both the VIPER ESC an then the yellow or blue wires go to the motor terminals an the back to the ESC an then the black negitve wire goes back to the neg on the battery an ive fitted the R/C FLY LEADS both into a Y lead an takin one red wire out an the fly lead then goes to THE 2 POSTION on the R/X as i dont like twin stick as i have not got good hand to hand coodernaition so all four motors work from one stick hope you understand what ive said as i have disconneted the fly that has the red wire removed an the remaing ESC AN THE MOTORS RUN OK it only when i reconnect the other ESC FOR THE BACK MOTORS THAT THE PROBLEMS START LIKE YOU WAS SAYIN MOTORS RUN FOR A FEW SECOND S THEN OFF AN ON THEN NOTHING
ALL BEST CHRIS BUT TOMORROW I'LL CHECK EACH ESC THEN GO FROM THERE

frogman3 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2021, 06:33:35 pm »

HI AGAIN Stan here is a linkpics an here ive only wired up one esc an it all goin through a relay forgot to mention that as when i had trouble i removed the relay an had a direct feed to the FUSE BOX then from them to the ESC AN FROM THE ESC to the MOTORS an then BACK VIA THE YELLOW OR BLUE TO ESC then through blacks neg back to the batt an the fly leads off the ESC GO TO A y lead an one flylead has the red wire removed an the other lead to the R/X
CHRIS
https://ibb.co/t3JzV4F

frogman3 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 11, 2021, 06:36:38 pm »

AN HERE BOTH ESC all fitted but relay is shown here but i did remove it when i had the problems
https://ibb.co/nf4mWwT
or have i fitted it all too close to the motors ?
chris

frogman3 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 11, 2021, 06:40:33 pm »

an yes i just fitted in 3 amp fuses just to test as i thought they would blow rather than have any thing like ESC DAMAGED but they blew staight away as i knew they would but this was just a test but after that i fitted in 30 amp fuses
chris

Stan · « **Reply #17 on:** July 11, 2021, 07:06:34 pm »

HI Chris looking at those motors they may draw lots of power. Do you know what motors they are ? If you use my picture of the Missouri your installation should be the same. The motor cables seem to be red and black I always wire them using yellow and blue. If possible can you tidy up the wiring it is very difficult the see how this all works. Looking at those motors I suspect the will have very high stall current which could be more than the rated value of the ESC. Just one more question are you getting the red and green light on the ESC when you turn on the small black switches?

frogman3 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 11, 2021, 07:23:51 pm »

Quote from: Stan on July 11, 2021, 07:06:34 pm

HI Chris looking at those motors they may draw lots of power. Do you know what motors they are ? If you use my picture of the Missouri your installation should be the same. The motor cables seem to be red and black I always wire them using yellow and blue. If possible can you tidy up the wiring it is very difficult the see how this all works. Looking at those motors I suspect the will have very high stall current which could be more than the rated value of the ESC
[/quote

HI STAN no i dont know the name of the motors as i first had some smaller johnsons motors fitted but the drive shaftwas too short only 1/4 of an inch an the universal jionts kept comin off as they are held on by allen grub screws so i removed them an went to a model shop an asked for some motors that had a longer drive shafts but there is no name on them so it looks like ive wasted a load of money again ? an yes the black an red that you see on the motors come from the yellow an blue as they were not long enough so i solered on some extenshion leads
chris

Stan · « **Reply #19 on:** July 11, 2021, 07:39:45 pm »

HI Chris What you need is some one with a multi meter who can check the stall current of those motors. I think it could be a motor stroke battery problem. If you lived near me I would gladly take a look for you.

frogman3 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 11, 2021, 07:48:03 pm »

Quote from: Stan on July 11, 2021, 07:39:45 pm

HI Chris What you need is some one with a multi meter who can check the stall current of those motors. I think it could be a motor stroke battery problem. If you lived near me I would gladly take a look for you.

WELL Stan many thanks for your offer as you say pity i was not far off you but i have a freind comin tomorrow to have a look an see if he can sort it but yes i do now see what you mean about the motors may be too big for the ESC BUT YET THE ESC with the red wire in its flylead from the R/X runs the two rear motors ok as this is what i cant under stand as the ESC ARE 40 AMP ONES
BUT CHEERS FOR YOUR HELP
Chris

john44 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 11, 2021, 08:12:55 pm »

Hi Chris, the motors 64370 are Johnson’s motors with high torque capability, output could exceed 40 to 50 amps.
Stall current 80A at 12v, nominal voltage 6v. 11:500 rpm,12v. 23:000 rpm
Dia, 36mm x 65mm, shaft 11.5mm dia 3.175
Hope this helps.

John

frogman3 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 11, 2021, 08:46:33 pm »

HI John thanks for info an it looks like i have bought to big an heavy on current an power motors then so it looks like i'll have two scrap them then an refit more new motors but what motors would you recommend ?
please as im at a loss
chris

john44 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 11, 2021, 09:25:32 pm »

It all depends on the size and type & weight of the boat, size of the propellers etc, I would really alter the wiring
What is the relay used for?what radio set are you using how many channels?

John

frogman3 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 11, 2021, 09:33:00 pm »

Quote from: john44 on July 11, 2021, 09:25:32 pm

It all depends on the size and type & weight of the boat, size of the propellers etc, I would really alter the wiring
What is the relay used for?what radio set are you using how many channels?

John

WELL John if you look in battleship section on here an go down an you will see boatmans tiger build thread an u can get the size but tiger is nr 8feet long so a big model an props are about 35 mm 5 bladed an im usein a carsons R/C 14 CHANNEL
CHRIS

News:

Author Topic: HELP with ESC's (Read 3686 times)

RST

RST