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Author Topic: Small puffer  (Read 1962 times)

RST

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Small puffer
« on: July 26, 2021, 08:49:15 pm »

Hi,

Not sure if anyone is interested but along with VIC 56/96 type puffer there is now a more regular VIC puffer on download from thingiverse.  I'm playing around with one -just the hull, everything else I'm doing myself.  It's about 1:48-1:50 scale (my favourite scale).  I'm not sure whether I'l finish mine as an original or as a modern tourist steamer yet like VIC 27/32 (if I finish it, it's yet another work in progress again).

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4832191

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4254426


Rich



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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2021, 09:12:50 pm »


Excellent!   :-))

Is the hull printed from the bottom up?

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RST

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2021, 09:48:22 pm »

No martin, if you look at the weblink it's in half a dozen sections printed vertically which seems pretty usual.  I'm not one to use designs directly off the web but the principles are the same, the print is orientated for best quality and reduced scrap support materials.  I printed them on my wanhao I3 mini printer but gluing half a dozen blocks together after didn't work too well and my wanhao mini has had awful problems with the summer temps and didn't print well at all (I replaced most of the bits and stopped short of throwing it in the bin until I realised it was ambient temps that were causing all the problems and not the printer parts).  I stitched the hull sections together in tinkercad and printed in 2 sections bow and aft on my Flashforge Guider II (it can print 300mm high but this works out about 400'odd mm so 2 sections of 200'odd mm each).  My Guider II has had allot of problems also to do with high ambient temps -I nearly threw the towel in with it also until I realised it's air temps rather than the components.  There is a horrid join in the pic about the middle which didn't set right.  That dark grey gloop is JB Weld which I tried for the first time.  Hear good things about it but not convinced about it for modelling purposes yet.  I should hopefully be able to re-align, bond the gap and sand back.


It's a "hybrid" print.  I take advantage of the printing, but a combination of all modelling techniques and materials, so as far as I'm concerned, no different from a semi-scratch build on a commercial GRP or polystyrene hull -just with the difficulty of making the hull in the first place.


...I was asking a while back about your small-scale puffer build on the mayhem website, there was talk of a vac-forming but never got any feedback on it -I guess it's permanently on the shelf or junked since?  I never asked Sarik about their old puffer moulding -figured there was no point as they had lost some things a while back and I see there's more hulls dropped of the list the last 6 months now also.


Rich
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madwelshman

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2021, 04:13:06 pm »

That looks a nice model.
I need to have another go at getting my 3d printer working, so many things that I could do with being able to print out, not just for models, but for our van conversion too.


I'd love to build a Puffer one day. The detail that some of you guys put into them simply astounds me.


Will
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RST

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2021, 09:57:28 pm »

Thanks Will,
I am getting there with it very slowly. As I said before it's a complete mix of things -whatever works.  My trouble is though, I have so many projects on the go I just do a little bit at a time and MOJO is pretty low this past 12 months...

  • The mast I turned down (sandpaper in hand with a nasty battery drill turning it) from 6mm dowel from one of the few hardware shops left
  • The top of the old cargo hatch I thought would now be a proper steel affair and fitted hefty strengthening ribs from polystyrene (looking back too big but hey ho).  As with VIC 32 it's extended above original hatch height and lots of windows fitted
  • Deck house and wheelhouse is a combination of printing and polystyrene with brass bits
  • The winch up front is a combination of brass, polystyrene and printed bits.  -Doesn't matter what media: Very frustrating to get some representation of the steam cylinders plus pistons and cams!  Currently the wooden deck is scribed in polystyrene and I won't fit it until it's all painted at the end
  • The dinghy I admit is just taken from the free download -I made a set of crutches from brass and polystyrene and have a polystyrene cover on it.  I'll worry about tarpaulin ropes and lashing it down later.  It's actually a very nice print from the outside
  • The rear mast brasswork I just fixed in place last night, don't think it's right but it's neat.  The radar on-top is just something from bits box and is made from bits of polystyrene, I think the rotating antenna is a bit too big otherwise it will be OK all blacked up as per pics of VIC32
  • Last pic is the gangway made from polystyrene and some photo etched brass stanchions I had in stock as Billings 23mm ones were too big the first time  Very delicate!  The funnel is 3-D printed with embellishments in brass rod, split pins and bending my own bits.  I found an old aeronaut searchlight grille in the bottom of a box -so that's now glued to the top of the funnel as a grille
...Lots of bits re-used from old projects or adapted from something else so far.

It's all still very rough and ready.  If I get between 1 and 2mm either side of right it doesn't matter as long as it looks OK at 4 feet inspection!  It is a nice little size though, not too small and not too big.

Quandries:
  • I have 2mm prop shaft but space is tight for propellers.  My original 25mm one looks very small.  I managed to get a few Graupner 2mm 30mm props from Leeds Model Shop which will suit fine as I can sand the boss off them  but the rudder I still have to figure out.  No brass props needed here' the prototypes all seemd to have cast iron ones so painting them red antifoul will look better
  • My printer doesn't print smooth unless it's an orthogonal face -often leaves a grain very much like woodgrain as seen on my hull.  I was out of traditional johnsons red oxide primer I used to use but now have a small tin of 151 and it seems ideal from test painting to fill in the grain before sanding back -TBC
Rich
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madwelshman

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2021, 08:31:15 am »

Fair play, that looks fantastic. What a superb little model.


It still amazes me what you can find on Thingiverse.
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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2021, 08:49:51 pm »

Hi,

An overdue update, slowly progressing...

I had a major headache figuring out the rudder.  I decided to make from brass sheet and some 3mm tube plus some other bits.  It isn't removable but it's pretty free to move.  Down the centre of the rudderstock tube is a 2mm threased brass rod with a solderned nut t the botom and I'll fit a 2mm lock-nit at the top to hold everything in position.  The tiller arms I think are discontinued from Graupner (can't find any more -boo).  I decided not to hack the back of the deck house to fit a pushrod but put an intermediate "tiller" on the aft deck and transfer the movement fully underneath and probably the best solution to keep water out as it's always my worry with small models.  I might try to cover it with some barrels and a tarp -not sure.

I was quite pleased with the red oxide primer, it made sanding back the hull much easier.  It now no longer looks like a 3-D print from a standing distance.  Around the propeller was made with brass square section, brass rod protruding into the hull at the bottom which is quite fragile, then a strip of brass channel bonded on to give strength.  I've taken to JB weld for strength, gaps are filled with lilliput white and / or testors fine filler.

Fore and aft deck I've applied scribed polystyrent to look like wood.  Painted dark revell then dry brushed with light brown on top.  Looks OK but needs whitening somehow and its got a bit of a sheen I might take off the sheen with a magic eraser rather than another coat of paint or varnish.

Main deck is chequer plate (I call it Durbar but that's a Tata trademark apparently) -now glued down and painted.  I have to fix the mast tabernackle and paint it.

Colours:  It all looks a bit dark so far.  I messed up as the whellhouse is just halfords high-build primer and I should have done for fordeck companionway in it bit I pained it red and revell doesn't like being overoated in halfords primer.  I might still strip it back and try it.  I have not fitted a separate cludge on deck for this -its supposed to be a restored holiday cruiser so plenty of toilets and showers etc. fitted inside the hold.

Can't remember whether I said but I bought a couple of MRW steam whitle sound boards.  They are TINY and the "puffer" whistle (with a tiny bit of echo) sounds quite convincing on a 40mm mylar 0.5W speaker so it will be fitted in the engine casing.  I have to sort-out portholes for the engine casing but they'll be unglased to let the whistle out.  I'll glaze the wheelhouse windows then stick the roof down and fit a radar on the aft mast.

My 2mm drive train:  385 motor with 3 blade plastic prop looks OK.  I've sanded back the boss from the prop so the 2mm shaft protrudes and a 2mm washer and nut fits on perfect and will look the part after painting when finally fitted.

Penty of other bits to fit still.  I printed a stand for it but my filament ran out at 97% complete!!!  How close can you get to 100% utilisation of a reel of filament yet it failed probably just 2m of filament short so whole thing needs needs doing again!!!!  The joys of printing I guess.

....My painting is just shocking but it will look OK at 1m or more!  I have a real problem with dust these days.  My ventillators are in white as they were recovered from a failed attempt at VIC 56.  I think they'll be painted black which will fit better!

...Inside is bare still but I should have everything to fit-out for power and control.  It was a bit easier for rudder servo without it having to be placed in the deck house.

I have been conversing with Chum444 about his puffer which he's posted on rcgroups but I'm not a member.  He's welcome to share anything on this thread and I'll let him know I posted pics as can't attach them on PM.

Thanks,

Rich
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RST

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2021, 08:51:32 pm »

Some pics, sorry I haven't rotated or cropped them because the forum just stretches them to a defult size if they're different...
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RST

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2021, 09:13:33 pm »

To add...

Pic of intended drive train which I think will work.  I bought a few rigid shaft alignment kits but every one is out of true so am just sticking with Robbe 2mm rubber tube.  It's a mild pitch prop and the RE385 won't be that fast but if I base it on that I can change to a 380 -or maybe a 285/280 with a spacer ring as it's not a big model.  I'll be using an Action 5A ESC as I'm getting a bit fed up with Viper ESC's and them not particularly liking my radio at full power.  The Action kits just work out the box and a separate rx power is no problem.

I still have to drill the prop tube and fit an oiler -I use model boat grease in a syringe.  I know it's like what religion or football club you follow but works fine for me.

I forgot to say I said to Chum444 I have no idea what the tanks are on the deck house but most unlikely to be fresh water to flush a toilet on these boats when they're surrounded in salt water or just went over the side in the first place.  I think they are for lube and lamp oil.  The main accomodation was up in the f'scle -I'd imagine they wouldn't keep much potabe water except in separate barrels -the crew probably weren't so fussy about diluting their scotch with evian quality water back in the day!  If you look on VIC 32 they fitted a water tank under the gangway extension on the front of the deck house -mine has a representation of the same as it's a tourist boat rather than an old working boat.

Rich
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chum444

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2021, 10:16:03 pm »

Some fine Rich. Mine is the same scale;1/48th. Like lobster boats here in New England each of the puffers seems to have its own personality more than likely reflecting the owner’s preferences.


There are some who decry 3D printing of hulls, deck parts, etc. I am not one of them as like you I don’t think it’s much different than beginning with a f’glass hull. Just another step in the build which requires learning another skill, using a 3D printer.


Keep up the good work. Look forward to your building process and seeing it afloat.

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RST

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2021, 09:30:10 pm »

Thanks,

  • Looking more like it now.  Made some portholes the other day and painted them white -they'll help add a bit more colourLooks a bit better now hull is painted.  I masked the waterline by eye:  Take a measured point fore and aftt each side and sit with hull on knees and strike out the thin tamiyal tape until it looks right from the side then for and aft.  Turn hull round and repeat.  This method works fine for me for small models under 2 feet.  No need to strike out the waterline marker or any laser levelsHave started to fit the pulley blocks to the mast and boom -I haven't gone for full rigging but between the prototypes not sure what full rigging was, there's many permutationsRe-painted the dinghy from maroon to scumbled wood finish.  It's carvel rather than clinker which would be more prototypical but looks better than just painted red and I painted the tarp cover now also
Updated pic -looks more like it's coming together now.  I am debating white lining on the bulwarks, have to see what I can do neatly.  At the moment I'm suffering a bit from lots of part opened paint tinlets and them being a bit too thick for painting.


Rich

PS:  I debated a bit but went for the "restored" waterline which had antifoul in a straight "waterline"  line fore and aft rather than follow the curve of the upper hull rubbing strake.  I guess the two restored boats sit pretty positively trimmed -no cargo in the hold apart from people and living spaces.
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madwelshman

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2021, 11:21:48 pm »

Fantastic!! That looks totally different now Rich.


Any idea when you're hoping to maiden it?


Will
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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2021, 01:45:52 am »

Fantastic!! That looks totally different now Rich.


Any idea when you're hoping to maiden it?


Will

Hi,
Getting closer.  I think I figured out rudder servo mount the past couple of days.  Think I mentioned before all the shaft alignment kits / solid couplings are all out of true and now binned so going back to traditional tried and tested finger feel and a single dry duracell on the motor. Am just a bit nervous about bonding the motor mount down in case I have to swap motors later and as usual, not much aligns for esy access.

Rich
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RST

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2021, 09:28:50 pm »

Hi, some small details added / being added. 

The wheelhouse now has a back door.  I've got my little cheap printer running OK / almost perfect at the moment which is tempting fate now.  The oxy-acetylene bottles are only about 28mm long and the propane cylinder about 22mm.  They're close-enough to 1:50 scale (ish!).  They will be strapped to the outside of the engine room like I think VIC 32 has them.  I'll make coiled up gas hoses from electrical solder.  The hook was bent from brass wire and the headache ball is a christmas decoration ball about 4mm in diameter (pinched from my mothers crocheting stock she uses as "berries") -it should look OK when it's plastered up in black paint.  I forgot about a telegraph for the wheelhouse -didn't come out too well but it will hardly be seen inside anyway and the wheelhouse inside is pretty darn rough anyway!  The wheel was just something from the bits box -a billings one maybe, it was already painted in brown.  It will have a voice pipe fitted to the telegraph before adding but I don't think I'll fiddle with anything else apart from fit some glazing.

I've made up the servo mount -in reflection I should have just run the connecting rod across the aft deck now but ho-hum!
I'm not happy with any attempts to make liferaft cannisters so far.  Some more experimentation required.  If I had planned better they would have gone either side of the funnel -but there's not enough space for anything quite big enough to look convincing enough.
Rich
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RST

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2021, 08:11:56 pm »

Hi,

I've never had that much motivation to post as I go before so taking advantage of a few small steps further...
  • Wheelhouse now has telegraph and voice pipe (and entirely made-up arrangement but considering I was never going to bother!)
  • I decided after raiding bits box, and ordering yet another set of cannisters from Cornwall Model Boats which weren't right, stick with the ones I made the other week but I've put them on the main htch as the top of the engine room was strting to look a bit cluttered.  Would probably never pass inspection being that close to mast rigging but, meh
  • Found an old print of a rubbish bin so started painting it and about the only place I can find for it is on the forwards face of the tabernackle.  I would have a second one for recycling but I don't think I can get 2 to fit
  • The propane gas bottle and the oxy acetylene kit has now been fitted wither side of the engine room
  • I made a few 45gal oil drums and also a little jet washer which will hide at the aft end of the main deck
...My painting is still shocking and lots of little things to touch-up but it's starting to look very close to complete now in terms of details.  Next thng I must do is fix the drive chain and put in the bath to check it floats upright -I have my fingers crossed for this, woudn't surprise me if I have to re-paint waterline which is why I've not finished the tabernackle or the mast.

I reminded myself how to use my Silhouette Cameo cutter yesterday as it's been at lest six months since it was last used and it was new back then!  I just have to think of a VIC number / name to use befre I cut any decals.

Richard

I need to get an image hosting site sorted but here's more pics anyway.
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derekwarner

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2021, 12:55:07 am »

Rich.......


I am sure it's on the Mates list of jobs %)   for the Bosun before sailing, just make sure he lashes & secures those 3 white 45 gallon oil drums [just below the Bridge] back to the Deckhouse wall

Derek
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RST

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2021, 01:05:38 am »

Rich.......


I am sure it's on the Mates list of jobs %)   for the Bosun before sailing, just make sure he lashes & secures those 3 white 45 gallon oil drums [just below the Bridge] back to the Deckhouse wall

Derek

Hi Derek,

Absolutely -they just got loaded onboard and will be taken back off for paint prep.  If you look at my gas bottles they have miniature chains holding them in place -something similar will be employed for sure.

.....Rather ironically I went through a process a few years ago for storage of gas bottles on deck -this model is NO example according to any marine rules I found so far!!!
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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2021, 01:12:25 am »

Deckhouse wall..............opp's      <*< . the Deckhouse bulkhead :-))
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RST

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2021, 01:22:05 am »

Quote
I am sure it's on the Mates list of jobs %)   for the Bosun before sailing, just make sure he lashes & secures those 3 white 45 gallon oil drums [just below the Bridge] back to the Deckhouse wall




....you might be surprised Derek.  I sailed once on a marine job with a MEWP amongst others completely loose on deck after re-fit -was told it's not your concern as you are "project" rather than "marine" crew.  Meanwhile those of on "project" keep getting patronising lectures on seafastenings and safety cases and why we push to keep things in check! Marine guys get away with absolute blue m****r compared to what we have to ensure when a vessel is on-hire to us.
...but this is just suppsed to be a thing close-enough to VIC27 / 32 but far enough off for artistic licence.
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RST

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2021, 08:48:22 pm »

Oil barrels now duly seafastened back to admiralty eyes on the bulkhead.  Unfortunatey they forgot about the jet washer but nobody will notice!  The aft wooden deck, as well as the fore deck isn't stuck down yet which is why it looks a bit wonky in the pics.

She has now had her bottom wet twice in the test tank which is a small plastic storage box on the kitchen worktop.  First inclining trial revealed an alarming but not so unexpected tendancy on light ship conditions to instantly turn turtle!  Revealed the emphasis for all further weight as close to the keel as possible.  I knew I shouldn't have made a wheelhouse interior but glad I used wooden dowel for the mast rather than brass as I saw that problem from the start.  Second trial indicated my original attempt to use a 6.0V SUB-C pack of several flat and hump-backed types just a little too close for overload, and CoG / KG just a little too high.  So, as there is no need for 3.7 or 4.6Ah capacity or current draw I go to my usual fall-back of making up another 2.9Ah 6.0 or maybe 7.2V AA pack which will be more than ample and will leave unused weight to put it lower down to displace up to the waterline, unless I end up re-painting it.  I am trying to find some lead sheet which I got ages ago but cannot find it for love nor money!!!  It will have to wait until I can beg or borrow from the local scrappy -but I'm not sure they will allow to sell a small piece back under regulations.

The intended whistle speaker location under the funnel will now have to go inside the hull and resonate through and upward.  The gangway will now be seafstened on top of the hatch once I fit some tie-down eyes around the perimeter.  I will fold up some imitation tarpaulin and "guff" to fit where it used to be on the main deck house.  It will help with CoG as well as reduce windage -and it actually looks more the part down there on top of the main hatch!
Mast, boom and tabernackle is provisionally painted up but will be fitted and rigged properly once I get the waterline right.

I think I will also make covers for the freeing ports like some boats had as I find it better to keep water out in the first place on a small model than worry about it getting out afterwards.  That's about it -its a small model and there are always some challenges, especially when "freelancing".

I have been struggling with a name but think it will be called "VIC XXI" and registered in Inverness (VIC 21, as in 2001 lock-downs).


Rich
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ooyah/2

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2021, 03:26:57 pm »

Hi Richard,
I have some small pieces of lead weighing  1KG cut up into small squares and 2 pieces that you can unfold and cut up.


If you would like them I will send them up to you if you pay the postage of £4.00, these are left over from the time that I built my Puffer  Skylite at 1/2 to ft,  ( 33" long by 9ft beam ) it really surprised me as to how much lead was needed to get it down in the water,  even with the steam plant in, most puffers never had water lines painted on and were lead painted up to the deck level just below the Gunwales, your puffer of course has a constant level as it never gets loaded with cargo has the water line painted on.
Let me know if you want the lead please P.M. your address.
George.


One of the pics show a puffer with the mast down to get under The Jamaica bridge after unloading a cargo of gravel. The building with the bowed front is The Clyde Navigation Trust offices at the bottom of York St , the Puffer Starlite  heading down stream.
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RST

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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2021, 07:46:00 pm »

Hi George,

Thanks for the offer, I've rationalised my batteries and found some suitable small ballast.  Actually it's quite the opposite on small models -less payload and very careful placement on something 18" long.

...Thanks for the pic, I have that one saved somewhere also.  I drove relativey close-by that building passing over the King George V bridge a couple of times last week though I don't recognise much of Glasgow thse days since I lived there in the late 90's / turn of century!

Rich
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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2021, 11:46:50 am »

Hi Rich,
No problem I shall stick the lead back into the cupboard in case it's needed by anybody at a later stage.


It's no wonder that you don't recognize Glasgowy as over the past 30 years there has been vast changes in the city with many glass fronted building springing up in the centre of town and with the one way traffic system it can get confusing especially with some streets blocked of around the S.E.C.C . with the Cop 26 in progress.


I live outside the city about 7 miles N.E. in Kirkintilloch which has the Forth and Clyde canal running thro' from Bowling in the West to Edinburgh in the East.


Kirkintilloch at one time had 2- boat builder yard in the town famous for the Puffers that they built, the Puffers were really a conversion of the coal scows that were horse drawn and then had a Single cylinder Non condensing engine installed and the noise of the exhaust caused the a Puff Puff noise up their chimney and the Name stuck hence the Puffers.
There is a very extensive library with a section pertaining to the development of the Puffers  but alas no more.


If you are ever close by give me a bell and we can have a coffee together.


Take care and stay safe.
George.
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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2021, 12:32:46 am »

Hi George, yes we kniow the "puffer" heritage and the history is pretty evident.  The one straggler I find interisting is "Basuto".

I know 'Kirkie but only through a job decades ago.  I know about the short decades of the Forth and Clyde and the Union Canal.  Growing up in Liinlithgow I'm very proud to say I used to hold a licence for Victoria for many years and I also used to work on Ronnie Russacks boats at Ratho -and this all before anyone had an idea between the "millenium" project to join the two canals together.  Us pioneers back then are largely forgotten and rarely mentioned since.  Some of us still refer to the wheel at Falkirk as the original name: "antonine wheel".

I am always back to Linlithgow and Falkirk and the canal societies are severely lacking these days.  It's a shame to see now compared to how it was.

My first "cardboard boat race" in Linlithgow LUCS regatta was a success and it didn't look much different from vital spark as it was named.  I will forever remember the words of one LUCS person afterwards saying it was so good they took it out for a paddle after in the evening, it took fire axe to break it up afterwards.
Rich
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Re: Small puffer
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2021, 12:37:03 am »

I also built my first puffer as a kid  maybe 8 or 9 years or so of age from a simplified plan in MB magazine though I had no pocket money for anything to actually sail-I can't remember the date but all the MB articles keep recurring.  A single sheet of balsa when I was young was a months pocket money.  It's taken me 35 years or so to make something that might sail since.

If you are ever close by give me a bell and we can have a coffee together.

...sorry I forgot about this. Gladly but well into 2022 at earliest before I start mixing with anyone again.  Too much residing at work now we can and family ill health persists.
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