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Author Topic: Basic boating errors and assumptions!  (Read 6135 times)

Circlip

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2007, 12:59:58 PM »

     It's amusing that the ages of the seasoned members of these forums can be approximated by the
     jist of the replys. The 'older' guys tend to put a protective arm out while the younger ones tend to ::)
     We all had to start somewhere and some people didn't have the advantage of a Meccano set or the
     2bob Airfix kit. Even as a seasoned flier, in competition I one sent a thermal soarer 'up the line' without
     switching the receiver on, - only once, so when a new guy once came to our local slope on yellow flying
     a BROWN flag cos out of all the flags supplied with his 2 channel equipment he liked the colour brown best,
     what do you do? shout and bawl, well it is in the f manual, or quietly explain what it all means?
          In many years of consumer electronics electro-mech design I always worked on the theory that if a
     monkey could operate our products then a trained monkey would have no problems, just shows how wrong
     we can be. In todays age of instant gratification, how many kits have been sold to visitors at a model show
     to find their way into an attic/dustbin/fleebay because the buyers ability is less than the total sum of the effort
     required to make what they have seen but don't need the local 'Mouth' to derride their inabilities.(EVERY group
     has one). I find it reassuring that 'youfs' like Voyager have both the courage and ability to be able carry on a
     hobby for its own sake and hopefully be able to impart to some of todays more 'Youffull youfs' his knowledge

          Rant over.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2007, 01:12:00 PM »

I think we've been down this route before to no conclusive effect and, as someone has PM'd me, it's getting just a bit personal. We don't know the exact circumstances of the original story so we are not really qualified to comment on it. I think there is maybe an understandable difference in the tolerance level between club modellers on a Sunday morning at the pond and Traders at a hectic show. Bad manners are never justified but it has to be said that some people can be quite trying to deal with.

All the main contributors to this thread, traders or otherwise, are known to be very helpful to genuine enquirers on the Forum so the last thing we want is an argument on the subject.

Unless anyone has some really, really pressing titbit of wisdom to impart I suggest we leave it there.

Colin (with Moderator  ::) hat on!)
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Circlip

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2007, 01:47:21 PM »


   Just to clarify colin- the Mouth comment is catagorically NOT aimed at ANYONE on this forum
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John W E

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2007, 02:11:46 PM »

Hi there

I dont know what everyone else thinks about this topic, but, what is coming across to me is the fact that (some of us) are becoming less tolerant - the older generation on this forum (myself included) come from an era where one had to go out and learn it from books or learn by mistakes. 

A lot of the older generation modellers (going back years) came from a breed of people that were reluctant to give any modelling/any information out at all - their answer used to be, if you want to know son, go and read a book - but, today's generation have it so easy in some things.  They have this forum for a start off.   

What we all want to avoid is the situation where people are frightened to ask advice.  The story that always sticks out in my mind is the mechanic trying to explain to a gentleman why the negative side of a car battery was connected to the chassis of a car, and, when the mechanic couldnt make the gentleman understand, the mechanic asked the gent what job he did and the gent said he was a heart surgeon. Could you understand my job he said?  That is why my questions may seem simple to you my friend.

What we all have to understand is, we cant be knowledgeable in everything, and a master of everything.

Aye
john e
bluebird
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BlazingPenguin

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2007, 02:12:26 PM »

Sad to hear that someones PM'd another over whats become a well rounded discussion!

My very first model boating book is by a dutch chap, Andre Veenstra...and boy have I ever given that some mileage, except for the complicated (for me) graphs in relation to power outputs of various electric motor/props, now no doubt some on here would look at it all as the most basic of info and able to be understood by a gibbon with a hangover, well this particular primate dont speak gibbon m'lud! LOL

How about something productive instead?

A collation of the most basic required information about the hobby, from materials to construction of a boat,to the rudiments of Radio Control.
In plain english, with diagrams and with no copywright inferred, to be disseminated amongst clubs, traders and private parties in the form of a freely availalable PDF download.

Now....this will never obviate the recent Blackpool sketch, but will at least help the model boat community to hold their heads up ad say " We Tried"

If your not part of the solution...your part of the problem.
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bigH

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2007, 03:01:27 PM »

  I like to think that it is all in the way that we interpret help by understanding,  is it Four Candles or Fork Handles ??
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2007, 03:27:08 PM »

Colin,

I think this subject has been discussed before and it will certainly be discussed again because it is something that we come across more and more in our hobby and in other walks of life. 

It seems to be a bit of a shame that someone sees fit to PM you complaining about a thread that I personally can't see much wrong with. Some members seem to think that moderation is available to control a thread that they are not in agreement with rather than something offensive or inflamatory has been said.

I would allow people to have thier say freely and continue to ensure that nothing against the rules comes up.
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chingdevil

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2007, 03:29:31 PM »


My very first model boating book is by a dutch chap, Andre Veenstra...and boy have I ever given that some mileage, except for the complicated (for me) graphs in relation to power outputs of various electric motor/props, now no doubt some on here would look at it all as the most basic of info and able to be understood by a gibbon with a hangover, well this particular primate dont speak gibbon m'lud! LOL

How about something productive instead?

A collation of the most basic required information about the hobby, from materials to construction of a boat,to the rudiments of Radio Control.
In plain english, with diagrams and with no copywright inferred, to be disseminated amongst clubs, traders and private parties in the form of a freely availalable PDF download.



Blazing Penguin
Why not start another thread along these lines in Building Model Boats in either Construction Queries, Research or Information, or Hints & Tips. See what it brings up.

Brian

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BlazingPenguin

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2007, 03:39:57 PM »

It was a suggestion in relation to the current thread, a thread that seems in grave danger of 'flaming' when some more have access later this evening.
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Martin [Admin]

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Basic Boating Questions...
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2007, 05:04:34 PM »

Naaa! No 'flaming' on this forum!  :police:

OK, everyone, pose any question you like about model boats and and we'll see if we can come up with some definitive answers....  O0

First question: Please explain the parts of 2 channel radio gear and how you set it up and test it?


BTW: Here's a start -  Mayhem Technical

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2007, 05:45:27 PM »

Looks like Martin has already covered some of it. However, what about a "Beginners FAQ" section, accessible from both the Forum and the Mayhem Main Site. You could have individual topics on Radio, Drive Batteries, Glues etc. But we'd have to be careful not to cut across the normal Forum headings - it would be basic stuff only and would not include things like building from lines plans etc.

BTW, I think the PM I got earlier was justified, I too rather thought that things were getting a tad too polarised. As the more recent posts suggest - let's be productive. Then people will see the answers on here before they even THINK of asking the questions!
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dougal99

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2007, 07:32:51 PM »

I'm all for being productive and allowing for the basic/simple question but where would you place in the hierarchy the guy who rang me one night and insisted that I was not on my telephone number because that was not the number he dialled and if I was then I shouldn't have answered because he didn't want to talk to me. So his wrong number was all my fault  >:(

They are out there.  :'(

Doug
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2007, 08:34:44 PM »

That could have been one of my old customers before BT decided it didn't want to pay experienced people to go out and meet customers.
I once wasted two weeks eliminating things for a phone that always rang at just after midnight.  I took the plunge and rang him just about midnight.  While we spoke we heard the ringing, or rather, beeping.  Beep beep beep - beep beep beep it went.  He then sought and found the alarm watch in the sock drawer.  This was a captain of industry - to speak with him you rang his head office when the switchboard put you through to his department who let you talk to his secretary who then allowed converse with the great man.  I reckon that someone who is unable to count to three should not be left in charge of important things, like other peoples livelihoods, but thats just an opinion.
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2007, 08:51:05 PM »

Malcolm

In Her Maj's Service, anyone who could count beyond three was identifed as a dangerous subversive and had a black spot stuck onto the front of his R-file. Such people were never  put in charge of anything or anybody........

FLJ (one promotion in 31 years - I think they thought I was someone else when they drew up that list)
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2007, 08:58:09 PM »

So we both found our true level early on and managed to avoid the stress and unhappiness of being promoted beyond our abilities.  Smart or what?
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wombat

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2007, 09:16:27 PM »

OK slightly off topic but not that far.....

A little teaser for you (I first saw this in an article by Bob Pease of National Semiconductor):

A woman calls the telephone company to say that she has a problem with her phone. It won't ring, or at least it won't ring until the person has been calling for a few minutes. However, she says, not to worry because she has a telepathic dog. Everytime the phone rings the dog (which is chained to the telegraph pole) barks.

So what is going on?

Hint - the customer is giving all the information needed but perhaps not in the way you expect.

Wom
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bobdoc

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2007, 09:44:18 PM »

She's obviously not watching her dog all the time! {-)

Having built model boats from the 70's by the late 80's I had got familiar with PCs. Friends would phone me up having problems with their PC.

My introductory questions went something like: is it plugged into the mains (yes, on the wall); is that switched on; if so, is the on/off switch on the back of the computer "on"; if so, try pressing the on switch/button on the front. The comments back at that stage were usually something "these computer thingy's are complicated, aren't they?"

By the 90's and CDs, sorry CD ROMs, there was often a plaintive remark, "the holder for the coffee mug doesn't seen to be very robust"

As yon USA politician took so much misdirected ridicule for, we don't know what we don't know, etc. Or, this quiz show is easy....I know all the answers. Most of us dealing with clients (or whatever we call folk seeking our advice) learn to assume total ignorance, whatever the qualifications or apparent experience, and start form scratch using very plain language and certainly not using "ordinary" words as jargon while at the same time not speking down to people. Think of the meaning of the word "books" when heard by a librarian, an accountant and an employee!!
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wombat

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2007, 09:56:47 PM »

Bobdoc - nope, guess again!

Total ignorance I can cope with - it is those that should know better that really pee me off.

Spent an hour on the phone with an customer in Sweden - couldn't get the hardware to work. Took him through everything ended up with

"Let's check the setup window, make sure nothing is set to zero"
"There isn't a status window"
"If you have got the run button there will be a status window"
"But there isn't one"
 etc. etc.

"Oh here it is, it was covered by another window - I will try that and call you back if there is a problem" <click>

Heard nothing in the last week.

Wom
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White Ensign

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2007, 10:13:31 PM »

... you know that saying: There are no stupid questions, just dumb answers....

But some of the customers can be really a pain. I remember when I was in my last company in charge for technical requests (talking about plumbing and central-heating systems), when a customer rang me up. He wanted to have an offer on a new heating/boiler system a 4-parties-house. His spec was, that we have to offer him all tubes as square tubes with withworth-threads. I asked him, why for heavens sake he wanted to have square tubes? His answer: He had read an technical report, where it was mentioned that square tubes hve an better  flow-rate than round pipes. And therefor he can calculate the pump-system smaller and cheaper as for the round pipes. I refused any offer, as we are not able to cut withworths on square tubes. The will just hold on the corners of the tubes and square threads are not our speciality. He came up with the quastion, what kind of banana-store we are as he has studified on an technical university and we should invest our massive profits in the knowledge of our technical staff instead of new buildings. Then he drop the phone.
As you`ll see, there are some hopeless cases in this world. But as long as you find a little hope in your answer and you find the customer coming up and join in your rail- don`t give up!

Jörg
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Faraday's Cage

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2007, 10:21:16 PM »

The following examples although not really idiotic are still funny.

Electric meter bleeping every 20 secs or so - No, old smoke alarm left to die in cupboard where meter was. Battery running down.

Buzzing electric meter - No, transformer on uplighter lamp touching laminated floor and resonating.

Thermostat on storage heater whistling. No, old guys hearing aid down side of chair on full volume and causing feedback.

My favorite was the old lady who said that her tv and lights were very bright and that there was something wrong with the voltage -
Turns out she had been to the hospital that day and had some eye drops administered. Before I left, I told her that the drops were working fine.

I love my job (Occasionally).
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dougal99

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2007, 10:54:36 PM »

OK slightly off topic but not that far.....

A little teaser for you (I first saw this in an article by Bob Pease of National Semiconductor):

A woman calls the telephone company to say that she has a problem with her phone. It won't ring, or at least it won't ring until the person has been calling for a few minutes. However, she says, not to worry because she has a telepathic dog. Everytime the phone rings the dog (which is chained to the telegraph pole) barks.

So what is going on?

Hint - the customer is giving all the information needed but perhaps not in the way you expect.

Wom

I forget the details but it has something to do with the phone cable earthing due to the dogs urine and the dog getting a shock when the phone rang.

Cheers

Doug
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Bartapuss

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Re: Basic boating errors and assumptions!
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2007, 11:05:09 PM »

Trouble is you get some that get their hands on this gear and I am supprised they can breath for themselves never mind out else, then more frightening when they've finished sailing or trying to, get behind the wheel of a car!!!  Every time you go down the club the same ones bombard you with questions but they never seem to act on the good advice they're given which is usually confirmed by their latest creation or the same old problem Sunday after Sunday. We had one guy with an ironsider tug kit, who would ring me up at say 11 o'clock at night asking what colour port was etc etc, not only had he rung me but a good proportion of the membership, it became a headache that went on for months. Loads of people made bits and pieces for him to help him out which when the model finally turned up he had'nt used and decided to go his own way, after all that advice and help gone to waste the model looked crap.
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kiteman1

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2007, 07:02:22 PM »

Malcolm

In Her Maj's Service, anyone who could count beyond three was identifed as a dangerous subversive and had a black spot stuck onto the front of his R-file. Such people were never  put in charge of anything or anybody........

FLJ (one promotion in 31 years - I think they thought I was someone else when they drew up that list)

You shouldn't be surprised at your experience FLJ.  I worked for Derby City Council for twenty years and never got anywhere because I wouldn't roll over for them.  I'm retired now with my self-respect intact, not to mention my sanity.  The only ones who did get promotions were Union or no-hopers because them at the top were frightened of any one with a modicum of intelligence who might take their jobs. I might just write a book one of these days!!
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Bryan Young

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2007, 09:48:23 PM »

Malcolm

In Her Maj's Service, anyone who could count beyond three was identifed as a dangerous subversive and had a black spot stuck onto the front of his R-file. Such people were never  put in charge of anything or anybody........

FLJ (one promotion in 31 years - I think they thought I was someone else when they drew up that list)

You shouldn't be surprised at your experience FLJ.  I worked for Derby City Council for twenty years and never got anywhere because I wouldn't roll over for them.  I'm retired now with my self-respect intact, not to mention my sanity.  The only ones who did get promotions were Union or no-hopers because them at the top were frightened of any one with a modicum of intelligence who might take their jobs. I might just write a book one of these days!!
You and many others I suspect! Remarkable that ambition is not always allied to competence.
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wombat

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Re: Idiotic Modeler
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2007, 09:58:00 PM »


I forget the details but it has something to do with the phone cable earthing due to the dogs urine and the dog getting a shock when the phone rang.

Cheers

Doug

Close Doug, very close.

The problem was that the earth on the pole was poor. When the phone rang, the poor dog was being electrocuted by the 100V ringing voltage, which started it barking when someone rang the phone - hence the comment about the telepathic dog. After a while if the phone wasn't answered the dog got so distressed it urinated which soaked inot the ground and remade the earth temporaril, causing the phone to ring.


Useful article here for all those who deal with customers......

http://www.national.com/rap/Story/0,1562,8,00.html

Wom
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