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Author Topic: Water solenoid valves  (Read 1100 times)

Stan Straley

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Water solenoid valves
« on: July 26, 2021, 08:08:16 pm »

Does any one have information about what the best way to set up a feed water by pass system. I have just in stalled an axal pump on my steam plant, that is replacing the old servo pump. I have a WLD System made by Bill Ford and would like to purchase his solenoid valve. I have sent him an email and left messages on his site with no response. I have been looking on line for other solenoid valves. there many to choose from but I don't have enough information about how to setup the system. Do I need a three port valve or can I use a two port with a check valve? Also can any one recommend a solenoid valve Mfg. that makes valves for model steam boats? Thanks 8)
 
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derekwarner

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Re: Water solenoid valves
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2021, 11:49:19 pm »

Welcome Stan......without knowing any detail of a WLD System, it would be difficult to offer any real constructive comment


An axial water pump for model applications, and to work against your boiler WP, would be interesting O0


Another consideration with NC solenoid valves for model applications is the holding current required


Best try & make  contact with the supplier [Bil Ford], or come back with the full detail of what your plant includes and the intended configuration


Derek
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Derek Warner

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Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
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KNO3

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Re: Water solenoid valves
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2021, 10:43:00 am »

Have a look here:
https://www.clevedonsteam.co.uk/products.html#Servo%20Gas%20Valve
The valve is designed to by actuated by a servo, it could be used with water too and would make a good bypass valve.
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tghsmith

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Re: Water solenoid valves
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2021, 01:10:56 pm »

if I remember correctly I saw that Bill Ford had passed away..
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DBS88

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Re: Water solenoid valves
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2021, 05:47:56 pm »

Hi about 18 months ago whilst researching boiler controls I came across the WLD system and to be honest it certainly looked promising, sadly no longer available, here is what I found out,
End of boiler detection system

    • Print
    • Email[/size][/font]
    [/list][/size][size=0.85em]Written by Administrator[/size][/size][/size][size=0.85em]Published: 12 December 2014[/size][/font][/size][/font]
    A digital system that detects the water-level in small-scale boilers used in locomotives and steam boats will no longer be developed, and existing inventory will be sold at sale prices, the maker said last spring.
    Bill Ford, the Fern Park, Fla., hobbyist who created the Water Level Detection System, gave no reason for ending his business after 10 years of “successful development and production.” He said the system “provided protection from boiler damage, longer runs and monitoring of the boiler-water level without stopping.”
    Ford said, “Hundreds of systems have been installed in steam locomotives and boats in the United States and overseas and I’m proud to say no reports of failure have ever been reported.”
    Ford said he wanted to thank “the many steamers who have sent complimentary responses on the operation of the system.”
    The remaining inventory of systems will be sold at “a significantly reduced price” of $85, with limited supply, Ford said. Information on the product is at
    http://www.wldssystem.weebly.com or by e-mailing bfinduswlds@gmail.com.
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    Stan Straley

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #5 on: July 29, 2021, 02:30:26 pm »

    Thanks for the information. Sorry to hear about Bill Ford and the loss of a good boiler control product. I have continued to look for a solenoid valve similar to what BF industries offered from Clippard Instrument Laboratory, Inc.  WWW.Clippard.com. I ordered a Minimatic 3-way valve EVO-3-12-H. I will let you know if this valve works out.
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    jpdenver

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #6 on: August 03, 2021, 03:43:00 pm »

    Stan,
    I looked into the WLD system a number of years ago and was also disppointed to learn that Bill had stopped production. 

    If you have a system, can you shed some light on the sensors used in the boiler? 
    Some pictures maybe?  or a description?  The key to this puzzle is the sensor. 

    There are so many microprocessors available these days that it should be possible to create
    a system if we had a reliable way of determining the presence of water at a level in the boiler.

    The ABC system from Cheddar used an optical sensor on the sight tube where the presence of water 
    changed the amount of light (refraction) that reached the receiver portion.  This system suffers from 
    BUBBLES and works pretty well but can give false readings.

    So I am in search of a sensor that can be inserted in a bush and tell me via resistance or something when water isat that level. 

    Any help in the area would be appreciated.  I am not looking to make a commercial product and will share
    results when finished. 

    Thanks,Jim Pope 
    JPDenver 
    Denver, CO
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    Stan Straley

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #7 on: August 03, 2021, 08:41:23 pm »

    Jim, Here are some photos of the sensor. It looks simple to me. Maybe a 1/4 40 bush drilled out and a nylon insulator with a rubber seal drilled for a brass bolt through it to attach a wire. There is an O ring on the bush but you could use sealant. The WLS came with an LED light that is green when water is detected and turns red when there no water detected. I am converting my steam plant to an axal driven water feed pump and attempting to setup a feed water bypass with a solenoid valve at the end of a feed water heater. I have the valve installed but have not tested it yet. Maybe tomorrow.
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    RST

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #8 on: August 03, 2021, 08:54:51 pm »

    Hi Stan, I can't help you directly but from your post it seems you had added pictures but I don't think that's possible until you achieve so many posts (I forget the number).  It may help to either PM a member or contact site admin for help to share pictures as it doesn't sound like you a spammer!  It may help you in your quest.


    Rich
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    derekwarner

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #9 on: August 04, 2021, 12:17:32 am »

    Stan.....further to the note from RST, if you tap my name here on this posting page, my landline e-mail address appears


    I would be more than happy to post as many images you wish to share here in your thread .........


    This will help Jim Pope & others


    Derek
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    Derek Warner

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    roycv

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #10 on: August 04, 2021, 08:15:05 am »

    Hi all, there is an electronic circuit published in November 1988 in Radio Control Boat modeller magazine that I developed and worked out in conjunction with a colleague that uses an insulated probe which also doubles as the filler for the boiler.

    This pre-dates the Cheddar system, who said at the time that no-one wants an automatic system!  We had offered it to them before the article was published, so it cound be assumed they got the idea from our demonstration. 

    The system works by measuring the resistance of the water versus air between the probe and the boiler shell and the o/p drives a circuit to operate a servo to feed or by-pass the water feed to the boiler.  It all works and my friend Malcolm has been using it these past 30 odd years.
    It is best to build in some fail safes like carry on pumping water into the boiler if the circuit fails. 
    Also a useful addition is to sample the boiler pressure to operate a diaphragm which can reduce the gas flow when optimum steam pressure is reached.  So no steam or gas is wasted.

    Hope this helps.
    Regards
    Roy
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    jpdenver

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #11 on: August 13, 2021, 02:46:24 am »

    Roy,
    I do not have access to the magazine article.
    Do you think you could post a copy of the circuit? 

    Thanks,Jim Pope
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    roycv

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #12 on: August 13, 2021, 09:35:10 am »

    Hello Jim, I think that veroboard and old transistors have had their day and it may be better to move on to more modern approaches.  I do not have the article to hand as I gave away all my RC Boater magazines some years ago now.
    I will make a separate inquiry for you.
    regards
    Roy
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    roycv

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #13 on: August 13, 2021, 10:00:33 am »

    Hi Jim I have a reply for you, from my co-writer of the article.

    The article on "water level control" in in the downloads section on the second page of the Paddleducks site.

    I leave you to get on the paddleducks web site.
    All the best

    Roy
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    derekwarner

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #14 on: August 14, 2021, 02:45:42 am »

    Jim....... I can help, read your PM's......Derek
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    Derek Warner

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    malcolmbeak

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #15 on: August 14, 2021, 08:39:06 am »

    A word of warning about the "water level control" article. As published there were a couple of errors. The download on the Paddleducks site has the corrections which are obvious as there were done by hand. One is to the photo of tyre valves, and the other is to the cutouts on the overboard which is much more important.
    Malcolm
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    malcolmbeak

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #16 on: August 14, 2021, 08:42:28 am »

    That should be VEROBOARD, not OVERBOARD. Computers will change words they don't recognise!
    Malcolm
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    robbob

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #17 on: August 14, 2021, 08:59:27 pm »

    Hi Malcolm & Roy.
    Don't forget that your magazine article is also on the 'Members Article' page of the St.Albans & District Model Engineering Society's website.

    https://stalbansmes.com/

    The article is here:
    https://stalbansmes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Water-Level-Control-.pdf

    Robbob.
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    jpdenver

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #18 on: August 27, 2021, 02:29:10 am »

    Thanks for the copy of the article. 

    I am collecting ways of determining when the water level is
    getting low in the boiler.  an alternative to relying on the sight glass completely.

    Regards,Jim


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    roycv

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    Re: Water solenoid valves
    « Reply #19 on: August 27, 2021, 07:45:50 am »

    Hi I have been informed by my friend Malcolm that he has corrected the error in the original published article.  This simple way can be adapted to suit most boilers that have a screw down filler.  The filler needs to be adapted to have an electrically insulated probe and this is connected together with a wire to the boiler shell to the i/p electronics.
    There is much turbulence inside the boiler due to boiling water and movement of the boat, so there is a 2 second delay when the signal has to remain constant before the servo is operated to allow water into the boiler.
    Regards
    Roy
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