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Author Topic: Filling in the gaps  (Read 6829 times)

Bodger

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Filling in the gaps
« on: October 23, 2007, 12:17:23 AM »

Just in the process of planking my St Canute tug, I will have gaps and profiles to make up, what is the best type of filler to use?  Last model I  made the filler was too hard and when sanded the wood was removed leaving the hard filler and a 'rippled' hull!

Cheers Bodger :-\
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RickF

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2007, 12:29:19 AM »

I use the cheapest P38/P40 filler from Halfords - sands very well. For tiny jobs I use Humbrol plastic filler.

Rick
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boatmadman

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2007, 06:50:14 AM »

P38 for me as well, great stuff, goes off quickly as well so you dont have to wait long to get sanding.

Ian
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Shipmate60

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2007, 08:12:21 AM »

Yep,
P38 for mee too.

Bob
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2007, 08:55:11 AM »

And me! It doesn't seem to be too critical on the filler/hardener ratio either so you can just mix up small blobs if you need to. Nice and soft to sand and sticks to plasticard too.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2007, 09:03:37 AM »

Last car filler I used was from the pound shop... and it was the easy sand type too!
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DickyD

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2007, 09:18:01 AM »

P38 and Humbrol  O0
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Guy Bagley

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2007, 09:55:03 AM »

p38 and upol fillers everytime, the humbrol filler is good on plasticard and you can soften it by adding a few drops of MEK too........
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John W E

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2007, 12:32:17 PM »

Hi there Bodger, how is Badger  :D :D

First of all, may I ask what material your hull is planked with?  If it is balsa wood, I use a trick, when working with hulls that have been planked with balsa.   This trick is to first of all coat the hull with polyester resin with hardener mixed in.   Then allow the polyester resin to cure, and, once cured then I fill with the bog-standard P38 filler.    This process toughens the balsa up and avoids a situation of the planking sanding down before the filler sands down.

Also, I have several different shaped sanding blocks which I always use when I am going through the process of fairing a model hull.

Just another tip, if you are ever stuck for filler and have polyester resin and hardener - raid the Christmas talcum powders - the stuff that is put in cupboard every year  :) and, what you can do, is mix a ratio 1 part polyester resin to 20 parts talcum powder.   Once the consistency of the mix is like a putty, and smelling rather sweet  ??? you can scoop out what you require and add the hardener mix.  For those who are wondering, the majority of standard P38 fillers is just a mixture of French Chalk sweet smelling talcum powder and polyester resin with one or two thickeners added by the manufacturers.

Hope this of some help.

aye
john e
bluebird
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dougal99

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2007, 04:58:13 PM »

When I filled the gaps on my Brittany trawler, I covered the hull in paper masking tape and forced the filler (P38) through the planking from the inside. This way the filler is moulded close to the shape of the hull and needs little sanding to match the hull surface. Worked for me  O0

Cheers

Doug
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Stavros

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2007, 05:02:18 PM »

This is the stuff I use it is a lot softer and hence a dammed easier to use available from Halfords
Stavros
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2007, 05:39:27 PM »

Yes, I've seen that Stavros - but only in whopping great expensive tins. Do they do a smaller size?
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Stavros

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2007, 07:41:43 PM »

Come on it's only 8

Stavros
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ABRAD

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2007, 01:05:09 AM »

My farther was a cabinet maker and In those day a lot of veneer was used, any gaps were filled with chewed bread!! (yes you read right) it sands like wood when dry and takes stain similar to timber, leaving no tell tale filler marks,
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2007, 09:17:46 AM »

That's something I didn't know! The phrase "feeding the ducks" takes on a whole new meaning, your boat could be eaten!  :o
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John W E

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2007, 09:53:10 AM »

Hi there Abrad

Yes, my Grandfather was a cabinet-maker and he often told us of different methods for filling. Like you have said 'chewed bread' mixed with saw dust and large wood chips were then mixed in with the bread that was used to fill some gaps.   It was the starch in the bread that bonded it all together.  Also, the glue (which they used to boil in a pot) can't recall the name at the moment but someone may remember the name of it they used to mix the sawdust with that as well.

I dont know if anyone can recall the horrible smells that were sometimes around from - what we used to call the bone yards, where they used to boil animal bones to make glue.

aye
john e
bluebird
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barriew

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2007, 11:18:47 AM »


I dont know if anyone can recall the horrible smells that were sometimes around from - what we used to call the bone yards, where they used to boil animal bones to make glue.

aye
john e
bluebird

Yep!! Lived in Padgate for a time and the Evostick works was about half a mile away - if the wind was coming that way you had to keep the windows closed!

Barrie
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tigertiger

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2007, 11:59:13 AM »

I remeber we used to use another glue called Cascamite, which is a resin based powder, just add water, is waterproof when dry and very strong. I think we mixed this with sawdust as well.

We certanly mixed the stinky white fish glue with sawdust.
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Subculture

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2007, 02:00:18 PM »

I'd take the earlier suggestion of coating the timber hull with polyester resin first. I'd also add that a adding a layer of glass tissue will make your hull incredibly tough and waterproof. Polyester resin on it's own can be a bit brittle.

Then just use one of the polyester fillers recommended already to fill in any lumpiness and sand to smooth.

Andy

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2007, 03:55:30 PM »

Hi there Abrad

Yes, my Grandfather was a cabinet-maker and he often told us of different methods for filling. Like you have said 'chewed bread' mixed with saw dust and large wood chips were then mixed in with the bread that was used to fill some gaps.   It was the starch in the bread that bonded it all together.  Also, the glue (which they used to boil in a pot) can't recall the name at the moment but someone may remember the name of it they used to mix the sawdust with that as well.

I dont know if anyone can recall the horrible smells that were sometimes around from - what we used to call the bone yards, where they used to boil animal bones to make glue.

aye
john e
bluebird
The glue they used to melt in the pot was animal glue otherwise known as hide or scotch glue. I spent many hours of my apprenticeship boiling this for the joiners.

I also when I was truck driving used to take occasional loads of Supermarket butchers bones, 20 tons at a time, from the cold stores to a place near Heathrow airport where they were boiled down, which was a derelict factory with no roofs. When we arrived we stayed in the cab with the windows up while the trailers were unloaded. The workers opened the doors and most of the bones etc walked out on their own. The smell, the dust in summer and the slurry in winter were awful . The blokes that worked there earned every penny of their wages.
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DickyD

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2007, 03:58:58 PM »

I remeber we used to use another glue called Cascamite, which is a resin based powder, just add water, is waterproof when dry and very strong. I think we mixed this with sawdust as well.

We certanly mixed the stinky white fish glue with sawdust.

I think you will find that Cascamite is now called ResinMite. Used to use it alot doing joinery. A really strong glue.
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John W E

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2007, 04:01:28 PM »

hi there

For those who are interested, the procedure I use, for finishing a planked hull, whether balsa or obechi planked, is, first of all coat the hull with a covering of polyester resin, with hardener mixed - allow this to soak through into the planking and cure.  Then proceed and do all the filling with P38 - and when I have finished sanding and faring the hull in, I finish sanding with a coarse abrasive paper of something like 80 or 60 grit.  This allows for a good mechanical bond for the first coat of polyester resin. Then when that polyester resin has cured, then I give another coat of polyester resin and immediately lay over the top of this, tissue matting.  I draw the resin through the tissue matting by rolling it, using a washered-roller or a short haired brush - once this lamination has cured, I then give a further two coats of pure polyester resin over the top of this, thus allowing this to cure for at least a day.    I then go back and finish sanding the hull using various grades of wet 'n dry.   It may seem a long process, but, I have never yet had a hull fail apart from when I tried to take out a concrete dock side at the lake  ;D and even then it just took a little chunk out of the bow.  Easy fixed with a little bit more P38 filler.

aye
john e
bluebird
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2007, 04:32:58 PM »

Quote
I think you will find that Cascamite is now called ResinMite. Used to use it alot doing joinery. A really strong glue.

It also goes under the name of Extramite as marketed by Humbrol.
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John W E

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2007, 04:36:10 PM »

Humbrol though, they owned Airfix and several other companies and now with Hornby taking Airfix over and Humbrol - will we will be able to get these Glues?   or are we getting into a Sticky situation here  {-) {-) {-) {-)

aye
john e
bluebird
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djrobbo

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Re: Filling in the gaps
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2007, 08:32:38 PM »

Hi all...  cascamite which is now called extramite is available from screwfix......just recieved a new tub...........wonderful stuff...sticks like the proverbial and the army blanket

              regards  bob..
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