Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length.

[NickelBelter]

On the River-class frigates, successor to the corvettes the helmsman was given a periscope to see over the forward 4-inch gun... must've been like driving while staring into your rearview mirror.

[lmagna]

However it must be so hard for the captain or other navigators to work on the roof of the wheelhouse in the open air
if under the bad weather or high wave....


Kiyo

That seemed to be the nature of many British warship designs all of the way up to and including battleships. They all seemed to have bridges that were open to the weather. While having an open bridge has it's advantages when dealing with aircraft and such it is not so much fun in cold or rough weather. Both being very common in the North Atlantic. In some ships they could retreat to the pilot house but to be honest I am not sure if this was the case in corvettes.


Lou

[warspite]

Today, the navies prefer to use the electronic gimickry to see over the bow and around, using the eyeball for confirmation, in those days its like standing on a pier looking out to sea and not having wet glass obscurring your view, its easier to see at distance when the wind and rain are pelting at your face than behind glass.

[Backerther]

Hi Jim and Niall;


It is a bit late to correct the sliding doors to right positions from wrong present kit positions as the relating parts were already put together by CA permanently.


Kiyo

[Backerther]

Hi all;
A happy New Year and I wish you a healthy and happy life as well as your model ship hobby.
By the way,a little progress for today...


Kiyo

[Backerther]

Hi all;


I have come up to the ASW weapon, hedgehogs as followings...
I suppose that many have noticed something strange about the location of the projector of the weapon...
Yes,the stbd hinged door is not available to open enough to get the crews passed through due to the projector....!!!


See last pic below,a crew was compelled to stop at the door as the door ... 
"Why has the projector been installed such a place !!"as if he said like this....


Kiyo

[frogman3]

HI Kiyo  your model is looking good an them hegehogs look spot on but i alway thought the fired side ways from the ship an not foreward if ive got that right  that is  an i cant do any work on my tiger for a few days as ive had that eye op like you had kiyo so im fed up an bored stiff just as well i can look at all you guys builds an a very happy new year to you sir also
chris

[lmagna]

Hi Chris


You can be certain that the Hedge Hogs fired over the bow, not to the side. The idea was that they could be fired while the sub was still in contact by the sonar in front of the ship. As the ship passes over the sub, the target goes into a dead zone where the ship cannot detect it. The sub captains knew this and would almost always make a last minute change in direction, speed, depth, or all three when they entered this zone in a effort to make the depth charge attack less effective. In addition the Hedge Hogs did not explode unless they actually hit the sub so the water was not disturbed by the huge multiple depth charges going off and sonar contact could usually be regained much quicker after the pass.


Kiyo


Your Hedge hog rack is looking fantastic. If you look a pictures of the real ships you will see a couple of things. First of all, the blast wall were were talking about before did not extend in front of the hedgehogs allowing the rack to be placed a little further forward. This of course would allow a little more room aft even though it still looks like the space behind the hedgehogs was still fairly constrained. Again from looking at the pictures it looks like you may be placing the hedgehog rack a little too far inboard toward the centerline. If you look at this link and pause the picture you can see that the hedgehog system had a much clearer field of fire than on your model. I also see no evidence of the small davit that is standing next to your rack and limiting how far outboard it can be placed.
https://youtu.be/NSk4ikhNUzg?t=271
Sorry I have still not figured out how to insert pictures along with the text on this forum and am somewhat tired of trying to figure it out. Hope that is clear enough to understand with the verbal description.


Lou     

[frogman3]

HI  Lou many thanks for your reply on them hedgehogs  as ive never seen them in action only depth charges an i dint know that the hedgehogs dint exsplode unless they hit the sub something eles ive learnt today
cheers
chris 

[Backerther]

Hi Chris;
Thank you for your comment.

It's a wonderful decision that you had already an eye operation to recover the vision like I did about 13 months ago.
I suppose your vision may get much better drastically just after the operation,from my experience of both eyes.
My wife, nearly the same age as you,is supposed to have the operation in coming March with both eyes in two weeks.
Actual time of 5 minutes operation and ￥15000（USD13)to each eye have brought me a very light and clear vision in my case.


Kiyo

[warspite]

Hedgehogs were essentially water based mortars, designed to land in the water in an eliptical pattern.


The kits version seems bigger than the actual ones - according to the Agassiz book, they were up against the back of the blast sheild with room to get behind them to adjust the angle, the blast plate was also different, a single plate say 20mm thick angled to the back of the 6th row and 2 angle iron braces to the box.

[Backerther]

Hi gents;


Thank you for your comments on the hedgehog system.
I have understood the adequate location of the rack/projector aboard the Snowberry.
So far as your information is correct,kit instructions of Revell are very rude..aren't they.
Yes, Revell is this level ..??? 

[lmagna]

I was also wondering if anyone else thought that the kit supplied hedgehog rack was possibly out of scale. It would not be the first part of the kit that would be either out of scale or very crude in design. I would love to have the funds to build another, or rebuild my old Matchbox Corvette using the PE set from David J. Parkins Great
Little Ships. But down that road is the edge of financial ruin!


I think people may have forgotten that this kit has been around for 30 years now and there is a lot of after market available to improve it. By the same token there is little or no evidence that Revell has done much of anything to improve on the original Matchbox kit molds or instructions.


Your cost for eye surgery is amazing Kiyo. $130 for each eye is an impossibility here in the US. The cost of Lasik surgery here in the US starts at $500 and can be as high as 2000+, PER EYE! $1000 seems to be quite common. Also most insurance companies here do not cover the procedure even for older people!
 

[Backerther]

Hi Lou;


I had a surgery for a cataract about a year,which is a bit different from Lasic.
That is why the cost is so amazing for you,as 20% of all cost incurred in this surgery was charged at me, while the rest covered by the government insurance.


Kiyo

[Backerther]

Hi all;


My Snowberry designed by Revell/Matchbox seems to intend for skinny crews.!!!!
1;Narrow to pass as per the instructions... The skinny like the twiggy may be able to pass here aboard this corvette.!!
2/3;could pass the door to the deck,but again narrow to move ahead...
4;If the rack of the hedgehogs be placed along the edge of the hull,some hedgehogs may hit the davit securely.!!
5/6/7;Finally ,this location as per the instructions seems BETTER though crews are unable to pass the door....
  Instead,the corvette will never lead herself to make a suicide by her own goal of hedgehogs...


Kiyo

[warspite]

From the pictures of sackvilles rack, it appeared to be partly past the sheild to the left, but up against it in the book, I was surprised I could not get any images that showed it more clearly, the kit version seems to be enormous.


I just went looking for the photo of 166 and when I tried opening it it took me to a walk around of sackville on youtube, at about 6:44 into it lo and behold the hedgehog rack, the sheild had been cut back and it placed further forward, no davit to the right or in the centre of the sheild, but there was one on the gun platform, there was door to the end of the wheelhouse platform either, all seems to be open.

[lmagna]

I went looking and also found a number of pictures of the Sackville including the wheelhouse door and hedgehog system. I also noticed the lack of the starboard davit and suspect that on the ships in WWII they just stowed it until needed after the hedgehog weapons were installed.


I do think that the restoration of the Sackville is a "work in progress"  though. In many of the pictures I have looked at over the last few days, it appears that in some if them there are fewer items in place and in later or other pictures they are installed. Virtually all of her wartime equipment was removed when she became a research vessel and have either need to be made again or located when it was decided to restore her to her WWII looks. I suspect that this will be going on for quite a few more years as money and time permit.

[Geoff]

Interesting with the hedgehog, if I recall correctly some earlier versions had smaller hedgehogs fixed to each side of the gun shield albeit as previously referenced they would only fire them forwards.


I had not seen this later development as this gives many more bomblets to hit a target so would have been a better weapon system.


Cheers


Geoff

[tonyH]

The small alternatives to the Hedgehog were the Mousetraps. Same principle i.e.they worked on impact.

[lmagna]

Hello Geoff


I could be wrong but I think the system you reference, mounted on the sides of the turret, were not hedgehogs but star shell or flair launchers. They would fire one or two flairs at a time into the air down range in the same direction as the main gun was pointing. This hopefully illuminated the sub down range and made it easier to hit.  You see them mounted on many small escorts including corvettes.


Tony


Yes the Mousetrap was almost the same as the hedgehog but used rockets to launch instead of the motor system used by the Hedgehog. No recoil in that so it could be mounted on much smaller ships. The Hedgehog system produced a 40 ton force down onto the ships deck when fired. Look up "Woofus" to see another use of the Mousetrap rocket.

[tonyH]

Hi Lou,
Yup, it's my fault for not reading Geoff's post fully. Mousetraps on the brain from my current build!
There was, however, a variation on the standard Hedgehog. This is from Navweaps "The standard "box" mounting contained 24 projectiles arranged in six rows of four projectiles. A variation was "Split Hedgehog" which was used in some sloops and other small ships where it was necessary to retain the forward gun. These mountings held 12 projectiles each and one was placed on each beam, near the bridge. These were coupled together, initially with wire ropes, later by hydraulic jacks. About 35 ships were so fitted between 1942 and 1943."
Tony
 

[lmagna]

Thanks Tony


I don't think I have ever read anything about "split hedgehog" systems. I have read about split "Squid" launchers which were able to be aimed, but they fired a form of depth charge that was set to explode at a certain depth rather than a contact denotator. Some larger, especially US escorts, also had dual standard hedgehog launchers set to fire to each side of the bow so they increased that chance of a hit with two patterns of 48 mortar's covering twice the area rather than one. Looks like I need to do some research and reading.

[Backerther]

I got a decisive pic of Snowberry on the location of hedgehog.
I may follow these pic for the time being...

[Backerther]

My compromising plan of the hedgehog rack is like this following the previous pics of real Snowberry one.
The door will be openable to get a crew pass through while the deck edge will allow a narrow space for a crew to pass through as in a pic. And projectile will never hit the boat davit any more.
By this layout,contradiction around the hedgehog rack location seems to have been solved to the level of my compromise to some extent.....   Everything perfect is unable to be expected for this kit.
But it's OK since I fundamentally intend and expect her to be a good running model rather than a display model.

[lmagna]

Outstanding Kiyo


I knew you would work it out in a way you liked. There is a chance that no two corvettes were exactly alike anyway.


Lou