Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length.

[morfa]

This might seem like a silly question - do "Steamers" carry any extra insurance on the home insurance?
I went to a club meeting in Ottawa/Canada last week and a question from the floor was -"Does our club have insurance to cover an accident from a steam boiler and are the boilers checked by gov regulators?


The club does have public liability insurance, as we sail in public parks from time to time as well as a private quarry for which we pay a fee.
All 3 of my steam plants (UK/Australian and Chinese - Pendle/MSM and Microcosm) came with papers.


Not sure how long they are good for in Canada or where I would/will go to renew them?


Asking for a friend (and myself) as a "Steamer" hoping for many sails to come...
Derek

[tigertiger]

I don't have any answers, only suggestions.


I believe that Canada laws vary from province to province. I would check with the OSHA to see if they can further advise on boiler regulations, if they exist, or who else might be able to advise you. I would do this before contacting the insurance company, mentioning safety certificates  to the insurance co. may be a problem if Ontario/Canada does not have such a thing. https://www.ehscompliance.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqfuZ_rOw9gIVfT2tBh3tIASYEAAYASAAEgLqv_D_BwE

Regarding insurance. Check with your insurance company, and try to get their decision in writing.

[Geoff]

One thing to consider that if your club currently carries public liability insurance and there are no exclusions for steam powered models then you have cover already. Lots of insurance case law, if its not specifically excluded then its covered for such insurances.


[size=78%]In my opinion far to much concern is expressed over steam models and their danger, if any. The concern always seems to be what happens if a boiler explodes, like a hand grenade going off! No, actually and in 40 years of modelling I have never unearthed an genuine case of a model marine boiler exploding (Note I'm talking small boilers such as made in the past by Cheddar models that only carry about 500mm of water).[/size]


Cheddar actually tested one to destruction years ago by sealing off all vents and steamed it to destruction. I don't know what the pressure was but eventually the end plates bulged and one of the joints on an internal fire tube split and a jet of steam vented and put the flame out. No explosion, it just doesn't happen.


Another myth is that if you run out of water before fuel the boiler can explode. No it cant, no water = no pressure = no explosion! Its scientifically impossible. Yes you can set fire to the model but that's about all.


In my opinion very fast electrics are far more dangerous, fast enough to hit the bank and fly into the air .(and hit people) with their razor sharp props spinning at god knows what rpm.


Just enjoy your hobby.


Cheers


Geoff

[derekwarner]

You could consider that it is absolutely OK not to be concerned with Public Liability Insurance, until an incident occurs, then the      Law or your Land becomes involved


So naturally, the first statement is grossly bordering on criminality or insanity     ..so it then comes back to the Laws of your Land

In Australia, the majority of Registered Steam Clubs belong to a National body, who also provide Group Public Liability Insurance


The costs of this demon 'Public Liability Insurance' for our hobby has increased over the past years with 16%, then 23% then 35% compounding increases, where our ILS with approx 100 Members  for the 2022-2023 Insurance costs will be approximately an $11,500.00 Insurance invoice, or    $115.00 per Member

Public Liability Insurance costs could well be the demise of our Model Steam hobby

Derek 

[kinmel]

In the UK, steam units smaller than the 3 bar/litre rule are exempt from legal pressure testing requirements, but annual inspections are recommended.
Our club has 1 member with a certified steam boiler and the club's P.L.I. broker simply added it to the policy at no additional cost.

[Jerry C]

A while ago I checked with my home insurance company. My PLI (3,000,000) covered me for my model steam launch but not for a full sized boat. They told me they had never had an incident/claim for a model steam boiler.


Jerry C.

[Geoff]

It would be interesting to hear from any insurers out there - have they ever had a liability claim from a model steam boat - and lets have specifics without naming names.


The laws of the land certainly come into play as does the fine print in any insurance contract but it should be read, as a contract - how many of us actually read our car insurance wording end to end. If you don't read it and catch the conditions it can lead to disappointment in any claim. Pretty sure my car insurance excludes drink driving/drug driving, (I do neither) but that's for the physical damage to my own car not to other third parties.


Cheers


Geoff

[GG]

As what might be termed a "casual user" of steam plants in my model boats (two small single cylinder and one larger twin unit somewhere under the workbench), I've followed this thread with interest. 


Geoff's first post was in line with my thinking, are our modest model steam plants really that dangerous?  Anymore potentially threatening to life or limb than, say, some of the fast electric models that anyone can buy and sail without any prior knowledge or experience.  Come to think of it, even the humble lead-acid battery can be a problem if misused.


I have sometimes thought that the image that steam powered models are preserve of highly gifted people (i.e. someone much better than you or I) is promoted by those characters who have a desperate (and maybe sad) need to bolster their status in this hobby.  This might explain the prevalence of steam engines in open launches.  Yes, a very practical set up but it also encourages lesser mortals to gather around and drool over all the highly polished bits of metal.


Steam engines are not really complicated and their operation and could have been readily understood by the ancient Greeks.  Even built by them had they the industrial base for metal refining and machining.  Looking at the problems that crop up on these hobby forums, steam power doesn't seem any more troublesome or dangerous than electricity.
Glynn Guest     

[morfa]

Thanks for all the advice - I tend to agree with Geoff's view of the world and with care I will continue to enjoy the hobby.


I didn't want to open a can of worms by contacting my insurer but with your comments/advice, will have a chat and make sure I am covered ( I believe I am in Canada).
Will confirm the club's policy is also OK. Do I understand correct DerekW you pay $115 AUS for the insurance each year?


I always thought that it was less about an explosion and more about losing the boat to a fire at sea - but I could be wrong.


Derek

[Colin Bishop]

I don't think that most insurance policies cover the model itself (although some might). It is more about third party liability.

Colin

[morfa]

Colin,
Yes, I didn't think they would cover the boat/Steam Plant just the public liability part - sorry for the confusion.
Derek