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[Colin Bishop]

There is a lot in the news at the moment about the search for the wreck of Shackleton's ship Endurance which was crushed by ice in the Antarctic in 1915.

I find this a bit difficult to understand really. The crew knew the ship would be crushed by the ice long before it went down and took everything useful off it. There were lots of photos taken of the ship when trapped in the ice. So what is the point of trying to find the wreck which will contain little of interest and for which the circumstances of her sinking are fully documented?

It is a very different situation to the earlier loss of Erebus and Terror during the Frankin expedition where the circumstances of their loss and the deaths of their crews are only still being pieced together.

https://secretsoftheice.com/news/2019/10/28/franklin-expedition/

https://allthatsinteresting.com/john-torrington-franklin-expedition-mummies

Colin

[Footski]

Colin,
I totally agree with you, it does seem a bit of a waste of effort and money. That said, human beings are always inquisitive and just want to find it because they believe they can!

[raflaunches]

Two ships that should be found, as we know very little of their final few minutes and only from the enemy point of view, are the wrecks of the HMS Good Hope and HMS Monmouth. As far as I’m aware I don’t think it’s been attempted. Considering the SMS Scharnhorst has been discovered in the last few years I think Craddock’s missing squadron should have the same honour.

[Martin (Admin)]

 
BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-60239105


Side note: I did think the Kenneth Branagh, Shackleton, TV Mini Series, 2002, was exceptionally good.

               https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0272839/

[dodes]

Hi Nick, ref poor old Admiral Craddock, there is a small memorial to him in a graveyard close to Horndean , Hampshire. Also a book was written about 4 years ago by Steve R Dun explaining the politics and bad planning by the Admiralty in sending him South to engage a powerful modern squadron with two old toothless armoured cruisers, one modern light cruiser and a armed merchant cruiser.

[Fred Ellis]

Hi One & All


I was given a book at Christmas called "Erebus" the story of a ship it was by Michael Palin, I must say it was a very good read.


Fred

[Colin Bishop]

Cradock also had the pre Dreadnought Canopus under his command but he judged her too slow to keep up with the search for Von Spee's squadron. It later turned out that the Engineer officer of Canopus was experiencing mental health problems and gave the impression to her Captain that the ship was much slower than she actually was. Whether this would have nade a difference is conjectural though.

The two British armoured cruisers were not technically toothless, HMS Good Hope was bigger than Scharnhorst and Gneisenau and her armament included a couple of 9.2 inch guns. However both ships were very much inferior in fighting qualities to the crack German ships being manned largely by inexperienced reservists. Cradock really needed the heavy guns of Canopus to even the odds.

There are a lot of interesting lessons to be learned from the battle of Coronel and the tragic end of many of the British combatants.

The subsequent defeat of the Germans at the Falklands was inevitable but a tribute to their bravery.

So sad all round really when you look back. Such is war though and let us hope that the Ukraine crisis doesn't result in major bloodshed. Unfortunately individuals like Putin can cause many needless deaths by pursuing their warped political objectives. Some things never change.

Colin

[dodes]

Hi Collin, when I was referring to his squadron, I was referring to what he had at hand when the fateful day arose, at least he had the compassion to detach the AMC. But the interesting point is that the following Falklands Battle and Helgoland bight battle was probably the only successful actions for which the battlecruisers were designed for.

[Colin Bishop]

Yes, quite right about the use of battlecruisers.

Re Cradock, I have seen the opinion expressed that although he knew he was outmatched he hoped to do enough damage to the German squadron to stop them commerce raiding, plus of course there was the reputation of the Royal Navy to uphold. He probably had the example of Rear Admiral Troubridge in mind who had been called before a court of enquiry (and later court martialled) just after the outbreak of war for declining to engage the battlecruiser Goeben with his four large armoured cruisers.

This article argues that he may have been right!

https://www.historynet.com/the-man-who-let-goeben-escape/

Colin

 

[dodes]

Hi Colin, yeah Naval officers have never left Nelsons saying that no officer can do wrong in laying his ship against the enemy. They seem to have this idea they command a death star and want to join the Ride of the Valkie's.

[Colin Bishop]

Yes, throughout history it is the men behind the weapons that have often decided the outcome rather than the weapons themselves although not always. The current Ukraine situation is a tragic case in point.

Often just a few individiuals can change history such as when the 300 Spartans and their allies defied the Persian armies. In 2019 we visited Thermopylae and you can still see the little knoll where the Spartans made their last stand.

Some things never change.

Colin

[dodes]

Have been reading about the ship wreck in the BBC Focus magazine, in why they went for it, it was less about the wreck but rather more using it as a focus to get the money to be able to research the area seabed and sea life.

[Footski]

Lucky man Colin. One of my dream holidays would involve such a journey…..

[Martin (Admin)]

Topic Split:  https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,68296.0.html