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Author Topic: Which Saw ?  (Read 2270 times)

Alan B

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Which Saw ?
« on: May 15, 2022, 06:01:54 pm »

Just starting out with boat construction making a Bristol Pilot Cutter. 
Have made numerous RC planes, but mainly using balsa which I've managed to make with hand tools.
The boat is going to need a lot of cutting of ply, and hardwoods, and I'm going to need some decent power tools.
I am familiar with most tools, but I don't have the budget or room to accommodate a lot of machines.
I suspect that a 16" scroll saw is going to address most of my needs, and they don't seem especially expensive.  Does this seem a good idea, and is it worth trying to get a good quality second hand one, or are the cheap new ones OK ?


thanks, Alan
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ChrisF

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Re: Which Saw ?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2022, 09:42:55 pm »

Hi Alan

I've been building for about 4 years and the only large power tool I've bought is a 16" scroll saw. If you go on woodworking forums they recommend getting what were more expensive second-hand scroll saws but I bought one of the cheaper Record scroll saws with variable speed - Clarke do a similar one and there are a number of badged engineered ones. I've used it a lot, 5 Fairey builds so far, and have been very pleased with it. The key is to use good quality blades and not force it. A small rechargeable drill is the only other electric tool I use on a regular basis.

I have plenty of DIY tools that have earned their keep over the years but for me buying power tools in addition to a scroll saw for modelling would be more about collecting tools rather than needing them! I've also bought a small drill press but haven't used it yet, though they are useful. I suppose it depends on what you build and the materials used.

Not powered, but I would suggest getting some PermaGrit sanding blocks and files if you haven't already got some. Pretty much essential in mine and many other folk' s books.

Photo shows parts for one build cut from 6mm and 4mm ply which was no problem. Saw and some PermaGrit blocks in the background!

Chris


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John W E

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Re: Which Saw ?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2022, 08:58:32 am »



Hi there, the alternative is the 'old' hand fretsaw.   I know a lot of people cant get away with them, but, I have used mine since Noah was a boy :-) and it is just a preferred method for me to cut plywood frames out.  I do have a scroll saw, but, I always seem to go back to my fretsaw.   As far as sanding and using
[size=0px]PermaGrit[/size][/font][/size][size=0px] [/size][/font] blocks I just use a square bit of wood with double sided tape and various grades of sand paper stuck to it.  Cheap and cheerful - that is what I am known as %% .[/size]

https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,7947.msg77347.html#msg77347
[size=0px]








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tonyH

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Re: Which Saw ?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2022, 09:31:29 am »

Definitely agree with John!

You'll be able to deal with ply up to about 5mm or down to 1mm with ease. Also, plasticard or brass/ali sheets using piercing saw blades, especially if you make a fretsaw table (basically a bit of wood with a slot in it) https://www.amazon.co.uk/KWB-fretsaw-table-clamp-3162/dp/B00FH29JFS or variations plus loads of stuff on Utube for diy versions.

I'm also an old boy of the wood/double-sided tape/sandpaper school, especially round dowels to get to the "curvy bits" that others don't reach!
Obviously it depends on the sort of size you work in but.......
Good Luck

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Alan B

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Re: Which Saw ?
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2022, 10:08:02 am »

Thanks for replies, have decided to get scroll saw probably from Machine Mart.


First task I have with the clipper is to make clinker construction tender boat to go on deck, loads of individual planks to cut out which a power tool will make much easier.


Thanks again, Alan
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Nordlys

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Re: Which Saw ?
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2022, 01:49:29 pm »


Machine mart is where I bought this model, works fine for me over several years.
N.
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ChrisF

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Re: Which Saw ?
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2022, 09:47:28 pm »

That Clarke is very similar to my Record which I also bought from Machinemart. Went with the Record as it had a 3 year warranty at the time.

Good decision Alan. I do use a fret saw now and again but no way would I have liked to have cut out all the parts that I have done over the last few years!

Bit of advice if I may. Use good quality blades, I use Olson and have never used the ones supplied with the saw. Also don't over tension the blades or try to turn too tightly in thicker material or you will break blades. Olson do a blade guide but I can tell you what I use if you want? I've tried pinless but tend to use pinned most of the time now.

You mention cutting out planks. A scroll saw is great and very versatile but for planks a bandsaw might be a better bet, especially if they are parallel sided as the bandsaw has a guide and the blade doesn't wander much. Scroll saw is fine for shaped clinker planks but be prepared for lots of sanding!

Chris
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Alan B

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Re: Which Saw ?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2022, 10:35:13 pm »

That Clarke is very similar to my Record which I also bought from Machinemart. Went with the Record as it had a 3 year warranty at the time.

Good decision Alan. I do use a fret saw now and again but no way would I have liked to have cut out all the parts that I have done over the last few years!

Bit of advice if I may. Use good quality blades, I use Olson and have never used the ones supplied with the saw. Also don't over tension the blades or try to turn too tightly in thicker material or you will break blades. Olson do a blade guide but I can tell you what I use if you want? I've tried pinless but tend to use pinned most of the time now.

You mention cutting out planks. A scroll saw is great and very versatile but for planks a bandsaw might be a better bet, especially if they are parallel sided as the bandsaw has a guide.

Chris


Thanks Chris, good advice.  My first build is the tender for the clipper, this is a David Alderton kit comprising hand drawn plans and numerous pieces of wood with pen marked outlines. There are 24 planks to cut out, but these have a curve.  Just got the box out to have another look, they're only 1mm and I'm going to be able to cut them with good scissors !!!  But there are lots of other pieces, formers, keels, transom, seats etc which are 3 to 4mm where the scroll saw is going to be very useful.  I'm guessing that a blade with a lot of teeth is going to be essential for these.
When I move on to the clipper build, the main construction is going to be deck furniture out of hardwood.
I also make planes, so will be very useful for cutting out the ply pieces.
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ChrisF

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Re: Which Saw ?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2022, 09:56:19 am »

For very thin planks I also use scissors or a knife.

For 3 or 4mm ply I use Olson 5" Pin End 18.5TPI (Ref: 42401) and for 6mm ply I use 15TPI (Ref: 41101). The former gives less splintering and can do tighter turns. Both blades will cut thicker though. I tend to cut a little way from the line and then sand with my PermaGrit blocks and files. For thinner timber I use Pinless 12TPI PGT (Ref: 45502). There  are a number of different pinless  blades for thin material. Trouble with pinless is that it's difficult (maybe impossible, can't remember) to turn the blades sideways for pieces bigger than the throat. This is because you have to fit clamps to each end of the blade.


Pegas blades from e.g. Axminster Tools are often recommended on woodworking forums so I will try some of those in the future. They tend to knock the cheaper badge engineered scroll saws but for the thickness of material we cut and the use we give them they are perfectly fine. I don't think I could do a better job on a more expensive machine. Main advantage is easier blade changes but it's not that difficult!

One last thing. When cutting thicker ply you will find sometimes, that due to a thin blade and the fact that the blade isn't rigid, it does flex, that you will be cutting at quite an angle to follow the line!

Chris
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John W E

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Re: Which Saw ?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2022, 03:49:55 pm »


here is an extract from AlanB posting (see below) which is guaranteed to have 'old' craftsmen turning in their graves - old statement from a craftsman who taught me - NEVER FORCE A SAW TO CUT - LET THE SAW DO THE WORK - BLADE SHOULD NOT BEND UNDER STRESS.   To test if the blade is at the correct tension, when you pluck it like a harp string - it should have a high pitched 'ping'.  This is on fretsaws, bandsaws etc.

A quote from Alan B's thread.
One last thing. When cutting thicker ply you will find sometimes, that due to a thin blade and the fact that the blade isn't rigid, it does flex, that you will be cutting at quite an angle to follow the line
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ChrisF

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Re: Which Saw ?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2022, 04:44:31 pm »

Hi John

That quote was from my post, not Alans. In my first post I said to use good quality blades and don't force it.


I also recommend tightening the blade so that you get a nice ping to it but don't overtighten. The flex I'm referring to is due to the "grain" of the of the ply. I know that ply is made up of sheets of timber laid in alternating directions but sometimes find that the blade wants to follow the "grain" and twists the blade, however light a pressure you use. I'm talking about twist here, not bending the blade back because too much pressure is being applied. Other times it cuts as straight as you like. I haven't broken a single blade in 4 years and 5 builds which included cutting quite a lot of 6mm ply so hopefully I've been doing something right.


Be interesting to hear what other scroll saw users experience is of this.

Chris
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John W E

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Re: Which Saw ?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2022, 05:30:43 pm »

ah sorry for the mistake there.   But, what I am trying to say - is that one shouldn't need to abuse any tool to do the job - if the tool is set up correctly.  I have a scroll saw myself and what I found with it is if it is set on a high speed cutting thick timber, the blades tend to soften through heat build up.  Sometimes they become brittle.  Everyone to their own preference; have you tried cutting brass on your scroll saw?   I cut paddle wheels out using a fret saw with a jewellers blade in it - I managed to cut them out without snapping a blade - I wonder if that is why jewellers prefer to use hand saws for cutting their material - more control than power tools I guess.


I am attaching pics of the frames which I cut out by hand for HMS Exeter - I think there are about 20-21 frames.   


john
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ChrisF

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Re: Which Saw ?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2022, 05:55:25 pm »

No, I've never cut any metal with any of my powered saws, including my jig saw. For brass sheet, like you, I use a jewellers saw and I have coping and fret saws. I prefer to keep my powered saws for timber only and all my tools are molly-coddled! Some of my DIY power tools are many years old, and whilst having had lots of use, still look like new! They are never put down on rough surfaces like concrete which some folks do. I did abuse one tool once, a small cordless drill, which I used for a job too big for it, and there was a smell of burning! It has since recovered and is still doing sterling service!

Blimey, cutting all those frames out was a labour of love and lovely paddle wheels.

Chris
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Re: Which Saw ?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2022, 11:34:27 am »

Probably 99.9% of injuries are 'created' by forcing blunt tools.  O0


 Regards  Ian.
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