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Author Topic: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022  (Read 3738 times)

Colin Bishop

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Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« on: June 17, 2022, 11:42:41 am »

I visited Portsmouth Dockyard yesterday. HMS QE was moored portside to quay so there was an opportunity from the harbour cruise to see the lifts in the down position.

Victory was looking rather sad with just two lower masts standing and surrounded by scaffolding which will be used to cover the ship in stages to allow replacement of rotten timbers. All explained here:

https://www.militaria-history.co.uk/news/victory-under-the-scaffolding/

It will be a long time before the ship is restored to her former glory. Last pic was taken in March 2006.

Colin
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Baldrick

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2022, 12:39:20 pm »



Looking at dear old Victory, maybe optical illusion, but looking at image 5 the hull profile  droop does seem to be quite pronounced now, quite onion shaped . I know this has been worrying the restoration team for some time which is why they built the cradle framework to take weight off the keel. I assume in this restoration they will aim to pull her back into shape.

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And everyone thought it was IVAN who was terrible

Colin Bishop

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2022, 03:02:16 pm »

 Yes, there is some distortion arising from resizing the original image file but you are quite tight, the keel was never designed to support the weight of the ship. Pressure would have been spread all over the hull when she was afloat which is what the new supports are intended to replicate.

Colin
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2022, 05:52:24 pm »

Here is something else which you won't see too often, an upside down WW1 Coastal Motor Boat!

No 4 Boathouse at Portsmouth are restoring the original CMB 4 which served in WW1 and on secret operations in the Baltic afterwards where she sank the Bolshevik cruiser Oleg. The vessel is on loan from the Imperial War Museum. The Boathouse is currently constructing a full size replica and the hull is currently upside down while final shaping takes place. This gives the opportunity to admire the sculpted hull form and the 'step' which assisted planing. Not sure what wood they are using but it looked lovely!

Colin
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dodes

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2022, 04:12:24 pm »

Talking many years ago to people who in Pompey who had some knowledge about the old girl(Victory), her lower masts go through her keel into the concrete dock and I believe her keel sits on a concrete block. Remember years ago when the yard was a H m Dkyd, the shipwrights renewed her forward bow frames and sheathing with a Malaysian hardwood, because of the dearth and price of seasoned oak. But she is a old wooden vessel and I expect her frames are starting to alter shape/bend due to the weight on them, as Colin says there is no support for them when she is floating. But there does seem to be a big problem with her as only her lower masts are in place at the moment and has been for a long time. Suspect it could be down to money as the MoD does not foot the bill as she is look after by a charity and there is no MoD skilled Dockyard Matey's to call on.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2022, 04:43:51 pm »

Yes, the keel does sit on a concrete base as you can see up close now. (pic below)

The restoration is a 10 year job and the masts won't go back until the covers over the deck sections have been taken down after making repairs to the decks which have been leaking badly. I think the funding is in place. See the link in my earlier post.

Colin


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dodes

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2022, 08:22:59 pm »

Hi Colin, its nice to get down under and see her lines, i remember with the Cutty Sark you used to be able to get halfway down the dock and view her lines which never used to disappoint me, but now with that glass screen around her you cannot get down there , unless it is now pay and see! But I should imagine it is very expensive now for material but I should imagine also it is also very difficult to get people with the right skills to work on her(should imagine not many shipwrights can use an adze).
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2022, 09:55:08 pm »

You can get down to the bottom of the Cutty Sark dock under the glass (or could a few years back) but the way the ship is now displayed is dreadful as you cannot view her properly from ground level any more. They made a real pig's ear of the restoration after the fire.

Colin
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dodes

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2022, 04:16:18 pm »

Totally agree Colin, years ago, i used walk across to Greenwich to get that extra time in the pubs then from North Woolwich and I often used to walk down those steps to admire the old ships hull(not a straight plank in her side if I remember right. But it reminds me of a modern day concern of sagging ships. I loaded the first load of Seadarts into the RFA Fort Victoria in Plymouth Sound from the Arrochar( remember I had to gat a 10ft berthing cat brought out to me as a matter of urgency, as she did not have the usual tumble home, but the opposite and my bridge wing etc was resting on her side even with fenders put in), I was told later she had a emergency de-ammo and docking as she had hogged so badly that she thought she may have broken her back(on what was then a new vessel) but it was put down to the fact she was lying around empty for a long time before she was loaded, but from what i saw of her and listening to others who had been on her, she was cheap built and not as strong as the previous fort boats.
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dodes

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2022, 04:21:31 pm »

I meant to comment on the amount of extra supports put in to support the old Vic, a lot more than I remember years ago, when I used to walk past her daily going into work. When you see that colour print in this topic you can see the amount of props they used in those days.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2022, 04:42:13 pm »

Yes, all those new supports apparently have built in measuring devices to monitor hull movement and are adjustable to even up the load.

Some more info here:

https://www.historicdockyard.co.uk/hms-victory-support

Colin
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dodes

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2022, 05:38:58 pm »

So good to hear that at last an irreplaceable relic of the past is having real care and attention it deserves, off late all you hear is old relics of the past being scrapped and when they are gone they are gone for ever even if they take careful recordings etc of them.
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dodes

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2022, 09:08:04 pm »

I took a number of pics of two CMB's today in the boathouse but afraid I cannot upload them, will see if I can reduce them to JPG size.
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warspite

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2022, 07:28:40 am »

Would it not have been better to build a complete building over her, she would be exceptionally better looking fully rigged with sail inside a covered building, this would show how she would look under sail, and instead of props on a single point - a matching frame along each actual frame to even out the pressure, a walkway could be left to allow visitors to view the hull as in the above photo, temperature controlled and humidity to also protect her, her drying out will only damage her further - just my opinion
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JimG

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2022, 12:50:53 pm »

Have you seriously thought about just how big a building would be needed to house the Victory. Also if enclosed in a building there is no way you could get a complete view of the ship and how will it be lit?  The Mary Rose is much smaller and is in a dark building, probably to help preserve it but this is a large building and doesn't need to be as high as she is not rigged.As for a matching frame support for each actual frame this would virtually be a solid support structure. Wooden warships do not have the same frame structure as a modern steel ship, Victory has around 135 full frames along its length each separated by no more than around 6 inches.

Jim

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2022, 01:00:35 pm »

The building would need to be 65m (205 ft) high.

They have enclosed the Vasa in Stockholm but only to the height of the lower masts. The Mary Rose at Portsmouth is also enclosed but only half the hull is preserved.

Personally I think Victory looks better in the open air. She just woudn't look the same boxed up. She is also a lot bigger than the other two.

Colin
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dodes

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2022, 02:27:54 pm »

Took these pics on sunday in Portsmouth naval base.
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dodes

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2022, 02:28:59 pm »

Still having problems will have to find some other way???
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warspite

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2022, 10:17:50 am »

Yes I did think about it - buildings can be built big, Singapore has a very large glass house with tree top walkways, temperature controlled and weather proof, also wasa is sat on the actual floor from the above picture, victory is in a dock, so the 65m 205 feet is still not so high, she would also be very impressive fully rigged, I understand a full support under the main beams would be a solid structure, but a frame lined with a wooden strip against the hull at every 4th of similar to the current props would take more load than the props, maintaining the shape and taking more of the weight, also allowing the public to walk through the frames would give them the opportunity to see the hull from underneath. I would like to know how the constitution is still holding up to the rigors of time, she is not as old and yet still afloat.
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JimG

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Re: Portsmouth Dockyard June 2022
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2022, 11:18:39 am »

The Constitution like most old wooden warships has seen much repairs and reconstructions over the years. HMS Trincomallee at Hartlepool (the oldest British warship still afloat) underwent major repair and rebuilds to reach its present condition. HMS Unicorn at Dundee is probably one of the most original sailing frigates around due to its original roof fitted during its building before launching. It has only had a few smaller repairs over the years although it has had modifications made to suit its use as a training ship for the naval reserve. Its current problem is rot where fresh water was able to gain access after the bow section of the roof was removed to allow for the fitting of a bowsprit and figurehead. It is suffering from hogging where the bow and stern have dropped due to their lower buoyancy and there is talk of her being permanantly drydocked.
Jim
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