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Author Topic: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!  (Read 37720 times)

Simmerit

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Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« on: August 15, 2022, 02:45:00 pm »

I am a modeller, but tend to focus on things that fly and things that go bang in 1/32nd and 1/35th, so this is a venture into the unknown for me and I've picked not an insignificant one as my first build! at 65" with a 10.5" beam, she's absolutely mahoosive, and the mrs needs a bigger piano - on the subject of which, she's not happy about the build.


A bit of history on Dreadnought before I talk about the kit.  Dreadnought was laid down in 1906.  She made the naval fleet of every nation redundant overnight, and her name became the de facto name describing capital ships the world over.  The demise of the battleship at the end of WW2 saw the demise of the name Dreadnought, which sadly was consigned to the pages of history.  Something military strategists are currently debating with the tank, or land ship as it was called when it saw battle for the first time in the battle of Flers-Courcelette in 1916.  Dreadnought saw the development of a new class of battleship, and ships laid down down 1906 to the late 1920s were some of the most beautiful warships to grace the sea - British capital ships I mean.  Clearly.


Redundant by 1914, Dreadnought lays claim to being the only battle ship to sink a submarine, ramming the unfortunate U29.  She was paid off in March 1920 for the princely sum of £44,750, having cost an eye watering £1,785,683 to build, which at our current rates of inflation, just about buys a gallon on petrol in the UK.....  She was broken up in 1923 and all that survives from her is a gun tampion which is in the National Maritime Museum.


The kit
I've had the kit for about 10 years, having picked it up an waltBay for about 180 sheets, which is a bit of a bargain considering this is the best part of 800 sheets new.  It's lay in one of the stables since purchase.  I bought it off an old lad who purchased it just after release.  He planned to build it but concluded that is was too big and he was too fragile to launch it.  I picked it up in Manchester and brought it home to Hertfordshire which is where it now resides.  The mrs came with me and wasn't happy about that either.  You may be spotting a bit of a trend where the mrs and boats is concerned - unless is a 20 footer with a 300hp outboard on it and its in the Bahamas! 


The kit is showing its age in an era of 3D printing with a number of the fixtures and fitting probably heading for replacement.  Most of the kit is there, but some bits are missing like the shafts and screws.  The lad that bought it also made a start of it, starting to fit out the interior of the hull, having not bothered to read the instructions........  He's used enough resin to mean the model wont need any ballast, so I'm hoping when I get round to test fitting the shafts, I wont have to reach for a dremel to try and cut out the sheet of ply thats stuck down in the hull.


One or two other issues with the kit which are age related - ply decks are warped and will need replacing, and will most of the wood looking at it, so my first step is to buy a sheet of marine ply and some obeche and balsa strip.  I have a copy of the Anatomy of the Dreadnought which looks like a great help and the National Maritime Museum is a long tube ride away if I need to do any research.  My plan is to build a working model that's as near as museum quality that I can get it.


Turrets look OK, but the guns need something doing with them.  I may look at getting a brass set turned if I can find someone to do it for me.


The build
OK so I'm a novice, but I am a modeller.  I know absolutely nothing about boaty things, so will be looking for advice and help/guidance.  I need to get hold of running gear - props, prop shafts and the A thinggies that support the shafts, and I want the to be as historically as accurate as possible.  Anyone point me in the direction of where to pick em up and what I need?  In other words HELLLPPPPPPPP!


Other thing is couplings and motors.  I'll need 4 of each.  I dont want a ship that does 70 knots, so any recommendations much appreciated.


As the say in the infantry 'wait out' and 'awaits incoming'.  I look forward to a few pointers from you lot.






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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2022, 03:18:00 pm »


Ask this bloke, he's on here as RAFlaunches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BTula4VBm8&t=1s

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ScottW

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2022, 09:23:24 pm »

He's used enough resin to mean the model wont need any ballast, so I'm hoping when I get round to test fitting the shafts, I wont have to reach for a dremel to try and cut out the sheet of ply thats stuck down in the hull.
Nah, won't need the Dremel, a jackhammer, yes, Dremel no.

That you have long experience modeling will do you well. Remember, no need to stress, is just like a regular scale model except for that it is bigger, it weighs more, it goes, and it can sink. Kind of like the 1970s when Tamiya had motors in their tanks. (their M10 and M36 would actually float with air trapped under upper hull and cross the deeper puddles on track propulsion. Yes, the little Mabuchi motors survived that with careful drying out)
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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2022, 09:52:00 pm »


Hi Simon



As Martin has already mentioned I’m that bloke raflaunches  :}
I built a Dean’s Marine Dreadnought between 2016 and 2017 as she appeared in 1916 post refit (the one that caused her to miss Jutland). The kit is an excellent base to add extra detail to, the basic kit looks pretty good too. I will suggest that you may wish to add another book to your collection for research purposes as this book helps you give a 3D view of the ship in colour:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Battleship-HMS-Dreadnought-Super-Drawings/dp/8362878681/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=2YJAZUMPWE3C2&keywords=3d+super+drawings+Dreadnought&qid=1660594792&sprefix=3d+super+drawings+dreadnought+%2Caps%2C68&sr=8-1


For motors you will need something with some power as battleship models tend to be heavy- my Dreadnought has three 12v sealed lead acid batteries not only has ballast but has power supply. For motors I suggest getting four 550 or bigger (but no bigger than 750) to drive your props. You will need to stagger the motors slightly so your propshafts, couplings and motors are as straight as possible. You can find couplings from various sources depending on your prop shaft diameter, I buy mine from SHG on eBay but you can get metal versions from Prop Shop who I also recommend replacing your props with. They are cast bronze and are beautifully cast and provide some extra power. You need power not only to move the model when fully ballasted but also to stop said model. They really do act like real displacement hulls requiring forward thinking when sailing and the extra power to slam on the brakes is sometimes a massive help!
I also have a 1/96 scale Invincible as she appeared in 1914 and in progress a Glorious as she appeared in 1917 as a large light cruiser (a battlecruiser in disguise!). I used two car heater motors driving belts to two prop shafts so all four shafts were powered by only two motors on Invincible but on Glorious which was narrower my Dad and I used four 750 motors.
Hopefully Geoff Dixon sees this thread as he builds from this era too- he has Iron Duke and Invincible in 1/96 with firing guns. They are truly spectacular models.
Hope this helps and ask if you would like more information.
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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!!!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2022, 04:42:48 am »

Hi SimonR;
I am also a RC modeller and especially have enjoyed RC planes for a long time,though lost flying field unfortunately about a decade ago. Therefore I have flown down to the surface already,RC boats/ships ,cars/tanks.! O0 :embarrassed: {:-{
For the above reason,I like plane and boat/ship so that I have selected/gone to the aircraft carrier 1/96 Deans Marine as
my first and last large model ship to be able to run on the large lake as in the pic below.
The carrier model was complete at my age of 70 after getting it a few years before 60.!! {-) {-) :-))
Your HMS Dreadnought is a big model as your first build so that I do expect you to do the best efforts to gain a superb result
of RC battleship.The real Dreadnought was very famous even in Japan in those days and affected very much to those concerned with the Imperial Japan Navy and naval arsenal very very much.AS all the Japanese existing main battleships
became immediately old-fashioned by the commission of the new sooo powerful and fast battleship.!!! :o :o <:( :} {-)
I want to see your HMS Dreadnought sailing magnificently on the water in the future.!!!! :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
Kiyo
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!!!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2022, 10:40:01 am »

Nah, won't need the Dremel, a jackhammer, yes, Dremel no.

That you have long experience modeling will do you well. Remember, no need to stress, is just like a regular scale model except for that it is bigger, it weighs more, it goes, and it can sink. Kind of like the 1970s when Tamiya had motors in their tanks. (their M10 and M36 would actually float with air trapped under upper hull and cross the deeper puddles on track propulsion. Yes, the little Mabuchi motors survived that with careful drying out)


That's where I' at with it, but the world of R/C boats an ships is a completely different world to armour and planes!  Different language, different retailers and a bit of a mystery to me!
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2022, 10:47:17 am »

Hi Simon



As Martin has already mentioned I’m that bloke raflaunches  :}
I built a Dean’s Marine Dreadnought between 2016 and 2017 as she appeared in 1916 post refit (the one that caused her to miss Jutland). The kit is an excellent base to add extra detail to, the basic kit looks pretty good too. I will suggest that you may wish to add another book to your collection for research purposes as this book helps you give a 3D view of the ship in colour:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Battleship-HMS-Dreadnought-Super-Drawings/dp/8362878681/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=2YJAZUMPWE3C2&keywords=3d+super+drawings+Dreadnought&qid=1660594792&sprefix=3d+super+drawings+dreadnought+%2Caps%2C68&sr=8-1


For motors you will need something with some power as battleship models tend to be heavy- my Dreadnought has three 12v sealed lead acid batteries not only has ballast but has power supply. For motors I suggest getting four 550 or bigger (but no bigger than 750) to drive your props. You will need to stagger the motors slightly so your propshafts, couplings and motors are as straight as possible. You can find couplings from various sources depending on your prop shaft diameter, I buy mine from SHG on eBay but you can get metal versions from Prop Shop who I also recommend replacing your props with. They are cast bronze and are beautifully cast and provide some extra power. You need power not only to move the model when fully ballasted but also to stop said model. They really do act like real displacement hulls requiring forward thinking when sailing and the extra power to slam on the brakes is sometimes a massive help!
I also have a 1/96 scale Invincible as she appeared in 1914 and in progress a Glorious as she appeared in 1917 as a large light cruiser (a battlecruiser in disguise!). I used two car heater motors driving belts to two prop shafts so all four shafts were powered by only two motors on Invincible but on Glorious which was narrower my Dad and I used four 750 motors.
Hopefully Geoff Dixon sees this thread as he builds from this era too- he has Iron Duke and Invincible in 1/96 with firing guns. They are truly spectacular models.
Hope this helps and ask if you would like more information.


Thanks for the post, and the advice - most appreciated.  I also had a crack at both ships about 30 odd years ago but never got beyond early stages.  I used plans from Map Plans.  Invincible was a beautiful cruiser but woefully under armoured.  The compromise made by the Admiralty cost a lot of lives at Jutland.  I dug these snaps out.


The ex Mrs binned Dreadnought, which was shame.  A bit of work and it could have turned out quite nice - I built it for one of my lads.  It never sailed.  Invincible was in the 'stand-off scale' section of Map Plans - not great below the waterline.  Its moulding in my stables at the moment and needs to go on a funeral pyre really.


Quick bit of further advice if I may.  What prop shafts would you use?  The kit prop shafts are long gone.  Alos what do you think of the kit A-frames for the prop shafts?  Would you recommend using something else?


Cheers


Si


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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2022, 10:48:55 am »


Ask this bloke, he's on here as RAFlaunches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BTula4VBm8&t=1s

I dont seem to be able to post pictures.  is that because I'm a newly registered user on the site?


Cheers


Si
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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!!!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2022, 04:55:34 pm »

Welcome Simon, and wow! Really impressed with your first bash at ship modelling.  As you probably realise, this will not be a short job, but there is plentiful expertise and support here, and I am sure you will get a regular following if you post the build here. 


As for posting pictures, that is a regular bete noire for new members (and quite a lot of old ones too!) but it is straightforward once you get the hang of it.  The images need to be made smaller to add to your post and one way is to use an image processing software package, most of which allow you to save a smaller version of your original image.  These can then be added to your post.  An alternative is to use an image hosting site so you can paste an address for each image in your post and it will appear irrespective of size.  Mayhem maintians its own hosting site here - download your images there and they can be referenced in your post (if you need more detailed instructions on that, just shout).

Happy modelling

Greg

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2022, 05:06:32 pm »

I dont seem to be able to post pictures.  is that because I'm a newly registered user on the site?
Cheers
Si

Have a look at:
  https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,61103.msg719443.html#msg719443

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2022, 11:17:36 am »

I use Microsoft office 2010 picture manager as it came with the office suite of programs  :-))
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2022, 09:08:46 pm »

Right.  I think I've mastered the photos..


One of Dreadnought as it is at the moment.  I've basically not managed to order anything yet as I've had a frantic week since getting back from holiday


One of the two I had a go at in my younger days.  Invincible wants to go on a funeral pyre and sadly the first Mrs R binned the unfinished scratch build


I'm hoping this works - I'm on a Mac....


Nope.  That didnt work!



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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2022, 09:24:01 pm »

Sorry for the delay in answering your questions-
You can get prop shafts made by various companies but if you want purpose made ones I recommend PropShop. Tell them your measurements of tube and exposed shaft and they will be able to make a set up for you.


If I remember the A-frames from the kit are white metal and on the original kit shafts are to support the fully encased shafts- if you want exposed shafts you will have to replace them- PropShop do them too.
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2022, 09:34:42 pm »

Sorry for the delay in answering your questions-
You can get prop shafts made by various companies but if you want purpose made ones I recommend PropShop. Tell them your measurements of tube and exposed shaft and they will be able to make a set up for you.


If I remember the A-frames from the kit are white metal and on the original kit shafts are to support the fully encased shafts- if you want exposed shafts you will have to replace them- PropShop do them too.


Thank you.  I will get the bits ordered now.
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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2022, 10:02:59 pm »

 
Simon's photos...







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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2022, 07:34:45 pm »


Thank Martin.


I've got hold os Simon at Propshop and exchanged beer tokens.  4 shafts, props, A frames and couplings should be with me in a week to ten days :}  He's a seasoned veteran where running gear for Deans Marine Dreadnought is concerned.  Cant think who would have been there already!


Portholes.  I need portholes.  Any guidance on which ones to obtain would be much appreciated!

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2022, 09:49:39 pm »

Portholes.  I need portholes.  Any guidance on which ones to obtain would be much appreciated!
 

What size do you need?   Diameter?
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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2022, 11:23:35 pm »

Do you want them with scuttles on?

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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2022, 03:18:50 pm »

Do you want them with scuttles on?


i'm deffo not an expert at this!  The holes I need to drill are 4mm, so the inside of the porthole facing the hull needs a 4mm o/d to fit in the hole.  As for scuttles?  No idea what was on the real thing, which is where I'm hoping to get to with this.


On the progress front, not done anything at all as I'm awaiting the running gear from Simon at Prop Shop, which should be here next week - he said said a week to do the prop shafts.  If thing progress at this rate, I'll be starting the superstructure!
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2022, 04:56:03 pm »

Do you want them with scuttles on?


Looking at some photos close up, they look like scuttles rather than portholes, now that I know what a scuttle is!
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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2022, 10:32:27 pm »

I always took the curved gutters above the portholes to be the scuttles.
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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2022, 11:02:11 pm »

To throw a spanner <*< ....Coaling Scuttles in steam tugs and smaller steam warships were [usually] a bronze removable disks in the deck, able to be semi-rotated & lifted out to allow coal to be shoveled into the coal bunkers [example image below]


Coal Scuttles on the Queens were larger square doors in the side of the hull, to be opened only in port for coaling purposes, directly into the coal bunkers


There is a video of the SS Alaska [the one with Queen Elizabeth on board reviewing an event]....[Salter Bros]......


 https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=1bf1eaaa84d93daaJmltdHM9MTY2MzAyNzIwMCZpZ3VpZD0xYTRmYWU1MS05Yzk0LTZiNDUtMjQyOS1iZmFjOWRhNjZhNmImaW5zaWQ9NTI5Nw&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=1a4fae51-9c94-6b45-2429-bfac9da66a6b&u=a1aHR0cDovL3NpbXBsb25wYy5jby51ay9BbGFza2EuaHRtbA&ntb=1


Pretty sure they open a fuel scuttle [bronze removable disk] in the deck,........to load waste wood mass fuel pellets....


Derek 
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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2022, 11:39:09 pm »

A “scuttle” is the generic naval term for a porthole; the half round gutter above the scuttle is an “eyebrow”, there are lots of those to make.
To make the “scuttles” there are two ways of doing it 1) spend lots of time cutting expensive brass tubing to the correct length or 2) just drill the hole to the right size and fill with clear glue (UHU?) and fill using a cocktail stick but do make sure that you have closed the back of the hole off or you will end up with a sticky mess inside the hull.
I would also advise that you do not purchase the ships drawings or any book that has any detail images of the propeller shafts, brackets, and rudders of capital ships of this period, just make do with what you have, otherwise you may end up with a nervous breakdown.
LB
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2022, 08:06:01 pm »

A “scuttle” is the generic naval term for a porthole; the half round gutter above the scuttle is an “eyebrow”, there are lots of those to make.
To make the “scuttles” there are two ways of doing it 1) spend lots of time cutting expensive brass tubing to the correct length or 2) just drill the hole to the right size and fill with clear glue (UHU?) and fill using a cocktail stick but do make sure that you have closed the back of the hole off or you will end up with a sticky mess inside the hull.
I would also advise that you do not purchase the ships drawings or any book that has any detail images of the propeller shafts, brackets, and rudders of capital ships of this period, just make do with what you have, otherwise you may end up with a nervous breakdown.
LB


Good advice re the shafts, A-frames and rudders.  Mine should turn up on Friday from Simon at Prop Shop.  Woo hoo!

I'm not sure what I'm going to do about the scuttles and eyebrows yet.  I did come across a sheet of 1/96th etch eyebrows but didnt note the URL.  Damn!  Hopefully the power of Google will sort that. 

On the scuttles, I've got to drill 4mm hols in the hull.  There are plenty of brass portholes available, but they all have raised outer rings, and looking at the piccies I've seen of Dreadnought, the scuttles are not proud on the hull, so the ones I've seen don't look suitable.  I do need to do a bit of proper research but I'm a bit mental with work at the minute, so havent been able to make the time to do some reading. 


I also wonder if there are any of the original ship builders models at the Maritime Museum from the same period as Dreadnought.  If there are any on display, a tootle into London may be called for to recce the models.  I'm only 30 minutes out of the City, so its eminently do-able for me.  Funny the thinsg we get obsessed about, and I havent even started the bloody thing yet!
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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2022, 08:51:35 pm »

Hi Simon, have you had a look here :-
https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/cgi-bin/bb000001.pl?PRODUCTPAGE=caldercraft_fittings.html

Other sizes available. :-)


Ray.
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