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Author Topic: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!  (Read 35543 times)

Colin Bishop

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2022, 10:33:38 pm »

Quote
I also wonder if there are any of the original ship builders models at the Maritime Museum from the same period as Dreadnought.

Unfortunately museums don't much like to exhibit models these days. , :((

There used to be lots of models which were really useful for detail information but most of them are now in long term storage.

Colin

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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2022, 08:35:26 am »

Unfortunately museums don't much like to exhibit models these days. , :((

There used to be lots of models which were really useful for detail information but most of them are now in long term storage.

Colin


Looks like I'm off to the IWM and science museum then!  Thanks for that - really helpful!!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2022, 10:21:33 am »

You may have misread me, the models are no longer on display except for a small selection. The NMM and IWM collections habe been moved to the Chatham Dockyard repository while the Science Museum ones have gone into storage, initially in North London I think and are being transferred to the National Collections Centre near Swindon.

The models at Chatham can be viewed by appointment, I don't know about the Science Museum models.

The National Museum of the Royal Navy has a large collection of warship models which were last on special display in 2009 and are stored somewhere at Portsmouth Dockyard.

Colin
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2022, 10:28:00 am »

Alan, you may have misread me, the models are no longer on display except for a small selection. The NMM and IWM collections habe been moved to the Chatham Dockyard repository while the Science Museum ones have gone into storage, initially in North London I think and are being transferred to the National Collections Centre near Swindon.

The models at Chatham can be viewed by appointment, I don't know about the Science Museum models.

The National Museum of the Royal Navy has a large collection of warship models which were last on special display in 2009 and are stored somewhere at Portsmouth Dockyard.

Colin


Yep - looks like I have - I went onto Google to check out what models are and which location and of course lots of info came back, apart from the fact that they were now not there! 

What a shame they are gone.  I'm from Sunderland originally and the museum in the Town Centre used to have a floor full of ships from the yards on the wear - naval and merchant.  I wonder if they have also gone?

Looks like I've got my answer anyway, which is the scuttles/portholes are flush with the hull with no protruding surfaces.  I've seen a few Dreadnoughts build with scuttles/portholes with bevelled edges on the brass, which are obviously wrong - some really nice builds as well, let down by lack of research.  I've no doubt the builders would be gutted if they knew.
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JimG

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2022, 11:21:14 am »

I also wonder if there are any of the original ship builders models at the Maritime Museum from the same period as Dreadnought.  If there are any on display, a tootle into London may be called for to recce the models.  I'm only 30 minutes out of the City, so its eminently do-able for me.  Funny the thinsg we get obsessed about, and I havent even started the bloody thing yet!
I think the majority of their ship models are in store at Chatham now, they only keep a few on display. Near empty cases and interactive displays ( that are often broken down) seem more important than historical artifacts. They can't overload the publics minds with information, their attention span is too short. Over the years I have seen too many museums go downhill pandering to the new standards. What used to be displays filled with objects now only a few with labels in small text only readable from a few feet away.
Jim
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derekwarner

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2022, 11:32:54 am »

Simon.....the issue of Ships Models being in long-term storage in Museums or the like, has disappointingly been the subject of many threads here on MBM and also other Forum groups over the years

The real issue is the Curators and Administrators of such facilities must bow to semi-Governmental purse strings in only providing exhibits of high patronage  .......youngsters more and more on mass, are only interested in pressing a button to see the exhibit twist, shake, move or evolve into something else, usually with an interactive backdrop and increasingly with an electronic flavour

So the rooms of model ships [and steam] are gradually moved further and further from the front entrance, and finally to non-admission storage areas

To further complicate the issue is that many such models were bequeathed to Museums, so now the only growing interest and financial gain is the Solicitors and Legal fraternity contriving  >>:-(  how to eliminate such models from the Facilities inventory.........

Derek
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Liverbudgie2

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2022, 01:20:05 pm »

You may have better luck at some of the smaller museums such as the Barrow Dockyard museum or the maritme museum at Irvine, where they have or did have the builders model of HMS Barham. This museum is well worth visiting in its own right as there many intertesting exhibits to see.


LB
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Geoff

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2022, 04:53:46 pm »

I seem to recall there was also a museum in Glasgow which had models of Indomitable and Colossus but that was years ago so I'm no longer sure if they are on display.


To get back to portholes. I plate my models in plastic card with the holes already punched out before gluing the plate to the hull. The eyebrows are plastic strip wound round a mandrel and boiled and then cut into circles and again in half and glued with plastic solvent weld to the plates. The whole being painted and then punched out discs of smoked plastic are used for the glazing. It works pretty well.
 


I accept that this may not be a viable practice with Deans Dreadnought as I think the plates are already molded in place.


I would strongly suggest you make a jig to keep the portholes level as otherwise can can be a bit wavy!


Cheers


Geoff
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2022, 08:42:10 pm »

Well.  A bit of progress.  The lad that restored the ship builders model of HMS Hercules sent me these, which must be accurate if the ship builder did them







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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2022, 08:44:05 pm »

and bless my soul - I can paste images!!!!!


Just ordered 27 of these which are eye wateringly expensive.....
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Capt Podge

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2022, 10:07:53 pm »

Just ordered 27 of these which are eye wateringly expensive.....


It's a beautiful looking bit of kit though Simon - will enhance your model no end.


Ray.
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2022, 10:15:54 pm »


It's a beautiful looking bit of kit though Simon - will enhance your model no end.


Ray.


Thanks Ray.  There's quite a bit of 3D printed bits out there but its bloody expensive.  I'm hoping these get passed the mrs............  before other parcels start to arrive :-)
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2022, 03:15:37 pm »

Well thats another 100 sheets gone.......  and if you think that looks nice, you should see the 36" searchlights..... and then there's the ships boats...



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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2022, 05:53:17 pm »

So here's taste of the searchlight and one of the ships boats - 32ft'er



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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2022, 05:23:37 pm »

I think I'm going to have to invest in a 3D printer.  I've just priced up the rest of the bits!!!!
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2022, 05:26:59 pm »

well.  These are complete waste of money! 



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NickelBelter

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2022, 01:32:19 am »

Now I won't an Uber Scale Link, as I have a bunch of packets of their staircases and I love them, but yes some of their stuff is not as good as other products.  I'd also say as a heads-up that their stanchions are a little too fragile for a working model. 

Keep in mind that a 3D printer isn't like one of those Star-Trek replicators, you have to have good inputs to get good outputs. MicroMaster spent a lot of time and money pouring over plans and doing trial prints in order to deliver those spectacular fittings.
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2022, 03:28:50 pm »

Now I won't an Uber Scale Link, as I have a bunch of packets of their staircases and I love them, but yes some of their stuff is not as good as other products.  I'd also say as a heads-up that their stanchions are a little too fragile for a working model. 

Keep in mind that a 3D printer isn't like one of those Star-Trek replicators, you have to have good inputs to get good outputs. MicroMaster spent a lot of time and money pouring over plans and doing trial prints in order to deliver those spectacular fittings.


From what I've read of it so far, the CAD stuff is a hobby in its own right!  If you look at the stuff MicroMaster are turning out, it looks like the person designing it is a professional.  The searchlight is stunning.


Where I've got with it is I'm going to have a look at some CAD software and see how I get on.  No point in investing in a 4k or 8k printer if I cant use the software.
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2022, 09:37:51 pm »

Well.  A minor step forwards.  Anchors arrived today.  The guns are currently on a plane from New Zealand.  Simon at Prop Shop is shipping the running gear!! Woo hoo!!


Anyway.  Anchors.  They are very nice.



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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2022, 07:35:31 pm »

These arrived on Friday - thanks to Simon at Prop Shop.  Great bit of work
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2022, 07:45:50 pm »

Also having a took at the Standard Lockers in John Roberts anatomy of Dreadnought.  There are lockers in the fixtures and fittings supplied by Deans but they lack detail.  I also dont see any of the flag lockers either.  I'm thinking this may be the first bash with Fusion 360 which is the CAD package I'm planning to use if I have a crack at 3D printing - with the printer I've not got yet! 


I couldn't locate a copy of the 3D Dreadnought book recommended by the lad who built one and Invincible, which is a shame as that could have come in handy.  Here's a couple of piccies of the lockers I'm on about.  There is a lot of detail missing with the kit.



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warspite

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2022, 11:42:16 am »

Not exactly lockers, but more access to the lower deck with a hoist to lift items in and out , the sides are like a bund wall and the door to prevent water over the bow flooding the lower deck, and it looks like one of them has square windows
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2022, 08:12:49 pm »

Not exactly lockers, but more access to the lower deck with a hoist to lift items in and out , the sides are like a bund wall and the door to prevent water over the bow flooding the lower deck, and it looks like one of them has square windows


Its a combination of lockers and access hatches I've got to do.  Some of the hatches are set into the deck, and some sit on top of raised combing.  My problem is I cant identify how many of what I need, and there is no schematic of the deck showing the layout of the lockers & hatches.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2022, 08:51:53 pm »

I think you have to appreciate that model boat kits are always simplified compared with museum quality models. This is inevitable for commercial reasons. If every detail were to be included the kit would be financially unviable.

However, as long as the basic construction and detail is accurate, you can still add additional components to enhance the model but to do this you need to undertake extra research to identify the missing detail. Just how far you go with this is something you have to decide for yourself depending on the information available and the amount of work you wish to put in.

The options are limitless really.

Colin
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Simmerit

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Re: Deans marine HMS Dreadnought - First build!
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2022, 09:00:53 pm »

I think you have to appreciate that model boat kits are always simplified compared with museum quality models. This is inevitable for commercial reasons. If every detail were to be included the kit would be financially unviable.

However, as long as the basic construction and detail is accurate, you can still add additional components to enhance the model but to do this you need to undertake extra research to identify the missing detail. Just how far you go with this is something you have to decide for yourself depending on the information available and the amount of work you wish to put in.

The options are limitless really.

Colin


I've just been looking at 1/350 builds of the Dreadnought from 1907 and the kits have got a good level of detail - better than the 1/96 fittings set.  The problem of course is with the models coming out of Russia (Zvesda) and China (Trumpter) and Poland (Eduard etch), you do find that these manufacturers have a tendency to make things up, so how reliable the plastic kits are is questionable.


More digging required
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