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Author Topic: HELP - Gun laying  (Read 1002 times)

frogman3

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HELP - Gun laying
« on: August 18, 2022, 04:14:43 pm »

HELP I got a qeustion guys on big ship with gun turrets do all the front guns turn the same way or wil they go one turret to port an one to starb as if there is a threat from both sides ?
chrisb
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Geoff

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Re: HELP - Gun laying
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2022, 04:54:27 pm »

Each turret can point in any direction it needs to. This is called Local Control. Typically all turrets are controlled by the main director tower aloft. This sights the target and the turrets align with the readings from the director. This is to make sure all turrets are pointing at the same target because at 15 miles its difficult to distinguish one target from another.


The director also fires all the guns at the same time to eliminate timing errors.




Long range gunnery requires salvo firing with a number of shells fired at the same time to ensure a percentage should hit otherwise its impossible.


In poor visibility when expecting an enemy sighting but not sure where from ships would often sail with some turrets pointing starboard and others to port in local control so if they enemy is sighted they can react quickly.


With big guns each gun can typically fire two rounds a minute but at long range it can take 90 seconds for a shell to land so they have to wait and see where the shells land before they can correct the aim.
 
The technical side is extremely complex. They have to take into account the rifling of the guns, how many shots each gun has fired (barrel wear) the wind, the temperature of the cordite, the atmospheric pressure and even the rotation of the earth to control creep plus the ship speed, inclination, role, yaw and pitch!!


They had mechanical computers called Dreyer tables to make the calculations.


Cheers


Geoff



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Geoff

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Re: HELP - Gun laying
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2022, 04:56:52 pm »

Also where the turret is in the ship and the bearing of the target. Ships had their guns carefully aligned with individual mechanical corrections as at long range it makes a difference how high each turret is and the fact the fore and aft turrets can be 500 feet apart so there are also convergence scales for every range!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HELP - Gun laying
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2022, 07:31:09 pm »

At the Battle of the River Plate the Admiral Graf Spee at one point divided her main armament between the Ajax and Achilles on the one hand and the Exeter on the other.

Colin
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NickelBelter

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Re: HELP - Gun laying
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2022, 07:37:22 pm »

I have also seen photos of ships in heavy weather with the foremost turret turned sideways to keep waves from impacting the barrels.
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frogman3

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Re: HELP - Gun laying
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2022, 10:00:09 pm »

thanks guys for your help but is it worh it to alter my guns on tiger so they both point the same way ?
chrisb %) :embarrassed: ;D
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ScottW

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Re: HELP - Gun laying
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2022, 11:35:36 pm »

Related content - if you have the requisite free time.
Now, granted, after the first one they are all USN specific, but, hey, ship gunnery is ship gunnery.

Quote
Range-finding and Fire Control - Plotting Your Demise
May 27, 2020
Drachinifel
This week in the second of the months Patreon selections we take a look at some of the basic principles and problems underlying naval gunnery in the battleship era.
https://youtu.be/cbXyAzGtIX8

and,

Quote
U.S. NAVY MAIN BATTERY FIRE CONTROL NAVAL GUNFIRE TRAINING FILM  81600

Periscope Film
Made in 1954, this U.S. Navy film shows the main battery fire control procedures aboard a heavy cruiser or battleship. The film shows a target being acquired, general quarters being sounded (1:30), and the general alarm being sounded (1:50). At 2:00, the fire control procedures are shown as the ship prepares to fire its main battery. The bridge, combat information center, control forward (location of the gunnery officer), and control aft are shown. Spot one and two are shown at 3:19, as well as the battery control director, which can fix the location of enemy targets. The Main Battery Targeting room is shown at 3:37. At 7:16, the Main Battery Officer gives the order to make a primary attack using a given fire control set-up. At 9;35, the sight angle and deflection as well as other values received from the plotting room are input, to align the turret with the target. At 12:22, the order to shoot is given and the results assessed. Salvos are now launched and at 13:00, rapid loading of the guns is seen with ammunition bags and shells being quickly moved into position and guns fired when ready. At 16:00 the ship secures from general quarters and the target is pronounced destroyed.
This film is part of the Periscope Film LLC archive, one of the largest historic military, transportation, and aviation stock footage collections in the USA.
https://youtu.be/3HoSh3n3CaI

and,

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Battleship New Jersey
   In this episode we're climbing into a gun director for the battleship's secondary battery, the 5in guns.
https://youtu.be/YnizGv2YQ_g

and,

Quote
Battleship New Jersey
We are finally tackling fire control for the 16in guns. Stick with us as we ascend many many many vertical ladders and climb into some spaces that we haven't showed you before.
https://youtu.be/YnizGv2YQ_g
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HELP - Gun laying
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2022, 11:51:21 pm »

 As far as models are concerned just keep it simple and have all the guns bearing on a single notional target. No need to complicate things,
Colin
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frogman3

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Re: HELP - Gun laying
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2022, 09:51:21 am »

again thnks for into guys
 :-))
chrisb
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Geoff

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Re: HELP - Gun laying
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2022, 12:19:12 pm »

I agree with Colin, keep it simple and have all guns lay in the same direction. Once you are on the water a few degrees adrift on any turret is not noticeable. If it takes "X" amount of effort to get 90% of what you want that is good enough as it can take "500X" effort to get the other 10%!! Been there and got the T-shirt!


Enjoy


Geoff
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frogman3

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Re: HELP - Gun laying
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2022, 06:01:49 pm »

I agree with Colin, keep it simple and have all guns lay in the same direction. Once you are on the water a few degrees adrift on any turret is not noticeable. If it takes "X" amount of effort to get 90% of what you want that is good enough as it can take "500X" effort to get the other 10%!! Been there and got the T-shirt!


Enjoy


Geoff


HI Geoff well i found the solution to the guns turrets an they are now all ok an im pleased just took a bit of thought but got there in the end an if you want to see it look on my tiger thread as no good puttin on twice
cheers all you guys for info
ATB
CHRISB
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