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[morfa]

This might be a question for Raphaël - I live in Ottawa Canada - the second coldest capital city in the world (Ulan Baatar is colder) and it is not always possible to test the boats in the garage when it's -10C. I see Raphaël has videos with the boats running in the bathtub. Is there precautions to take - unhook smoke/heat detector etc. I just don't know. What do modeller do to test real conditions and not on air but in colder environment. Right now its about waiting for the spring thaw in April! Thanks Derek

[rhavrane]

Bonjour morfa,

As I have never been able to finish any boat without a problem, a leak or other issue, and to have a first idea of their autonomy, I confirm that I test ALL my boats in my bathtub as soon as their lengths are less than 1,37m, otherwise I test them... in the bathroom or the kitchen 

I have never had any issue, even minor by doing like this, except perhaps a little burnt gas smell after more than an hour of operation and solved all my issues, all my first navigations on a pond are then perfect.

My last test... yesterday : https://youtu.be/FYTYjJXoc1E

Test of a larger boat : https://youtu.be/Wzb2Y0TZU1U

And at home, the temperature is commonly around +20°C 

I wish you a Happy New Year with a lot of nice steam events.

[morfa]

Brilliant Raphaël, will try it tomorrow. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

[captain_reg]

Always a good idea to have a carbon monoxide detector nearby. Not sure about Canada but here in the UK they are available in all DIY stores & most supermarkets for a small fee.

[rhavrane]

Bonjour,
In France, it is mandatory to have a smoke detector at home and mine starts every time my fish is a little bit too much toasted  [size=78%] [/size]

[Capt Podge]

My carbon monoxide detector stopped working a few months ago. After reading up on them I found out they have a life span of about 7 years, this due to the battery life. It is almost impossible to replace the battery without damaging the unit. Far easier to just buy a replacement unit, piece of mind for the sake of a few quid 

[morfa]

Capt Podge - I have carbon monoxide detectors on all 3 floors as per advice from my fire department (along with smoke detectors). We had a fire down the road recently and they went door to door to check the other houses. I had one on the main and one in the bedroom now in my office/shop. Thanks for the heads up.


Raphael - I didn't think the French burnt any cuisine especially fish!
Will carefully do a test this week with windows open and exhaust fans - thanks for the advice.Derek
P.S. Happy New Year and happy sailing 2023!

[Bernhard]

Hi  I have be steaming in my garage fore the last 100 years with closed door in winter time.never got a problem but some weeks ago I did buy a meter to test the carbon monoxide detector ,and It go to a very high level when I steam.it scare  me to se. So I think I better steam outside, or have the door open..you never know
[/size]Regards Bernhard and Happy New year

[Geoff]

I have also tested my steam  models in the bath when they fit! One curiosity years ago was HMS Canopus - 1899 battleship. It worked fine in the bath but on the lake the burner went out every ten mins which was very frustrating. It would then re-light and sail for another ten mins before going out again.


In the end I tracked it down to a simple explanation, not enough air getting into a relatively closed installation but why did it work in the bath and not on the lake? On the model all the cowl ventilators work, so in the bath the hot oxygen starved air vented out of the model drawing fresh air in. On the lake the forward motion of the model reversed this until the hot oxygen starved air reached the burner and out went the flame. Lifted the top off and the hot air went up drawing fresh air in and it would then re-light!


More vents in the side - some of the amidships 6" guns are now open to admit air at a lower level and I added some additional deck vents under the deck overhang so they are hidden and the problem was solved. A later modification last year was to add a small PC fan to force air in. I had a whole range of different issues last year but eventually solved them as the piston rings had gone solid and were no longer sealing properly so more steam leakage in the engine room which reached the burner an put it out. I tried the replacement nitol piston rings and the engine seized solid. Swapped to silicon rings and it was back to perfect again.


The other modification I made in the bath was how to keep the gas tank warm. As gas evaporates it changes state and draws the energy to do this from the tank which gets cold. As the tank gets cold the pressure drops and the flame gets less so the steam production is less. To correct this in Canopus I moved the condensate tank so it touched the side of the gas tank to provide gentle warmth. At the end of a run the tank is a good hand warm.


However the first time I tried it in the bath I got a shock because as the tank warmed up the pressure went up, the flame got bigger, so more steam exhaust which heated the tank further so the pressure went up etc, etc. I could hear the change in burner noise and was a little worried until after a few mins it all stabilised. Been doing it the same way in both my steam models for over a decade now and it all works fine.


Cheers


Geoff

[Martin (Admin)]

Just remember, parts of it get red-hot.... even when it doesn't seem like it!   

[roycv]

Hi Geof re reply8.  Many years ago 30+ we were experimenting to cure the same latent heat problem.  I built a Streamlinia with a friend donating the steam plant.  It was decided to have a relatively large heat source mounted as a shield about 4 x 4 inches from the boiler area and around the gas tank. 

t was clearly too much as the boat came alongside and the neoprene tube delivering the gas to the burner had blown up like a balloon to over 2 inches diameter.  No idea how much pressure that takes!

The idea was to get the boat to plane as per the Bassett-lowke adverts.  There was a 2 inch 3 blade prop and a 2 cyl. double acting engine 3/8ths x 3/8ths inches.  With a pressure of 25 - 30 pounds she would start to plane.  I had made a diy electronic revmeter and could check the revs at this pressure when under load.  2000 rpm gave the planing speed but the there was not enough heat and boiler heating area to maintain this.

The steam plant was handed back and I installed an electric motor.  However I made a plastic housing to look like a boiler and inverted the motor and home made gear reduction box and it did look like a turbine so I put some dummy plastic tubes to it from the boiler and a casual glance was easily fooled!

All set up for 2000 rpm and she would run on the plane for about 40 mins.  I tired of her and she was retired and then a fellow club member was discussing building a Streamlinia and a fast steam plant and so 5 years ago she changed ownership and is often seen running now.
In steaming condition she had automatic boiler water level control and the boiler pressure was monitored to attenuate the gas flame when at working pressure and this was in 1988.

At the next Model Engineering exhibition we took in a demo model to show Cheddar models.  They were not interested!!!!!  And the proprieter told us steam boat owners liked to 'play' with their boats and would not want an automonous set up.

So 12 monts later they brought out the ABC unit,  well well well I wonder where they got the idea from?  It did not use our water level detection system so we never persued it.
It was later adapted for another use and let's say 'earned its keep'
Sorry to have taken the thread up a dead end.  Always interested in experimentation.

Anyone tried the so called 'French Blow lamps'?
Regards
Roy

[rhavrane]

Bonjour Roy,

Is a "French Blow lamp" what I call a torch burner ? If so,90% of my boats use them, from 100 g/h to 300 g/h :

Examples of 2 x 140 G/H : https://youtu.be/go4IbVXTtZs or https://youtu.be/lU4LlaSYPhQ

Example of 300 g/h (not the same sound !) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4smWk7YK8I

I think that they are more efficient than ceramic ones as soon as the boiler is horizontal and has a length of more than 200 mm with a central diameter pipe of 32 to 40 mm (which saves volume for water). Concern, they are noisy.

This German Regner boiler is not able to provide steam for 2 x 4n4 cm3 Piccolo machines : https://youtu.be/FYTYjJXoc1E

About gas regulation, I do not trust electronic devices, I prefer the mechanical gas regulators (attenuators ?) like these ones: https://youtu.be/V8ybmqgcNak

[roycv]

Bonjour.  We or at least as I was informed, refer to heating methylated spirits into a gas and burning it.

The methylated spirits is fed through a coil which has a small flame under it.  This turns the meths into a gas and this comes out of a special nozzle and is lit and produces a blow lamp type flame.  They start up like a Roman candle firework so take a bit of nerve to run.
I have watched but never owned one.
regards
Roy

[rhavrane]

Bonjour Roy,

Are you referring to the Saito heating method like this example : https://youtu.be/XklAjhQWbd4

[roycv]

Bonjour, I think it must be the same.  I have not seen a professional installation we always made our own burners etc.
The ones I referred to were lit outside the boiler and spluttered a lot and then when the flame was stable they were put into the boiler tube.
Do they provide better heat or is it a more concentated burn of the alcolhol?

Roy

[rhavrane]

Bonjour Roy,

As I have not experienced myself, please allow me to repeat what I heard : For a dedicated diameter, this type of burner would provide more heat than a gas one but it is almost impossible manage heat regulation according to pressure.

I have seen once such a burner installed on a speed steam boat which had to operate at full throttle for 5 minutes, the single acting speed machine would not have managed any stop

As I was said, to win a race, start hard and then accelerate 

[roycv]

Bonjour, when you put it like that I can see the draw back to using them. 

My 2 friends were in the garage trying one out (my contribution was electronics) and suddenly they had the burner starting up and there were beautiful blue drops of meths on fire shooting up like Roman candles.
I went staight out the door!  They were laughing and said thay had rarely seen me move so quickly!  They knew what was going to happen and were waiting to see what I would do!
Roy

[xrad]

Indoors:


If you run a coal fired boiler, then not a good idea.


If you are using gas, then it's just like running a gas stove top.....but with a much smaller flame...

[CliffW]

Use of a carbon monoxide detector in the shop where you might fire up a gas burner powered boiler is always a good idea.  I would never fire a coal boiler indoors unless directly under a hood such as at restaurants....too much risk of high CO levels.