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[Waiting2Retire]

So... this should be obvious and I have searched the forum, but I am still a bit lost.
I am going to order a kit from SLEC, so while I am paying postage I thought I would stock up on some wood.


I also fancy scratch building a few things in future, I have some older plans that just say "ply" but I know what you find at the hardware store is probably not the right quality/grade or bonded in a way that is water resistant over time. I know there is "marine ply" that I think is bonded differently?


SLEC has sections for:

• Birch faced Poplar
• Birch
• Lite Ply (does as the name suggests it seems, good for superstructure)
• Poplar Face
• Poplar
• Laser Grade

What's the "standard stuff" I would want to build from a plan, I assume 6mm for the bulkheads, 3mm for hull sides, the same for superstructure? Some square section for inwhale's, stringers etc? Something thick for keels?


If I have a go at a Springer tug that's less precise, left over bits from a Wickes sheet and a good coat of sealant is probably ok?


Any pointers on what wood to chose for basic stock, and some good sizes to stock up on appreciated...

[Andyn]

Go for birch ply, though you’ll get far better quality stuff if you buy it from Hobart’s than you will from SLEC - a massively unpopular opinion on this forum I’m sure, but every sheet of ply from SLEC I’ve ever seen has been low quality and bent

[Waiting2Retire]

Thanks for reply - I will check out Hobart's - the only thing that worries me is their website says Russia Birch Ply - which its hopefully not!


The reason for looking at SLEC is I plan to order a kit from them (Police boat for Nephew for xmas... if I get it built in time  ) so while already paying postage thought it might make sense to get some wood.

[roycv]

Hi the problem is that the cost of cutting the ply can double the cost, per square foot, then there is postage.  Andy suggests going to a wood merchant, which is good.  If you tell them what you want and what it is for they fequently come out with off-cuts, but not guaranteed.

In your use remarks unless you are building big models 1mm 3ply is usually enough for hull sides and most old models were over strong mainly because of using i/c engines.  These had to have a wrapped around rope start and there were a lot of forces involved when the model was gripped between the knees and large jerks made to start the engine.  Hence the solid dimentions.  So plans suggesting 3/8th ply for bulkheads can go down to 3mm or 1/8th inches.

The quality of the ply should be good a resin bonded but most hulls are painted so special wood surfaces not really needed.  The laser quality ply in my experience has been dense and heavy. 
If you can visit a model aircraft extravaganza then the retailers often have larger pieces of ply and more stock wood than you would usually see from model boats suppliers.  But get there early!

If you are visiting a show and know of a retailer then order from them to pick up from the show.
regards
Roy

[Colin Bishop]

Decent wood isn't cheap. I've not had problems with SLEC but I have only ordered stripwood plus balsa and bass sheet from them - all of good quality. Plywood has been bought from them at shows and I've found it OK.  If you can get to a proper model shop then you can inspect birch ply sheets before buying them. Most of them have websites indicating what is in stock and a phone call or email can confirm.

However I would think twice about buying in stock until you have a specific project in mind otherwise it is almost inevitable that you either don't have what you need or not enough of it so you still have to get some more! If you try to avoid this situataion by covering all the bases then you could spend a fortune and end up not needing a lot of it.

Experience will show what items it is worth stocking but I have a lot of sheet and stripwood accumulated over many years and I have still had to buy extra for my last two projects because I didn't have all the materials I needed!

Colin

[Waiting2Retire]

Thanks Roy and Colin,


So I have my Vic Smeed “Loretta” that I am renovating, see “what’s this” thread, I want to add some basic internal details so balsa will be fine for that. I need to re work the motor mount and add a cabin floor, but regular DIY ply off cuts from the spares box will be serviceable for that.


I am going to get the River Police Launch kit and build it for my nephew, I guess I had in the back of my mind making a second for me as I can use the SLEC kit as templates - hence “stock”. Easier to draw around the parts before assembly than trace from the plan later. Older plans seem quite thick stock, 3mm bulkheads and 1-1.5mm sides seemed ok for a small half meter model as you suggested Roy. I think it’s a veron plan but I have not been able to find a copy to check the thicknesses suggested.


I am really taken by scratch building something, I am looking at older plans and that’s where the thicker ply comes from - Roy you’re right this vintage plans would be sturdy for fuel engines.


I really wanted to get to the southern model show last weekend but it didn’t work out, I know SLEC were there (so you can inspect and pick).


I have been a bit obsessed with the Fairey builds on the forums, really like the Swordsman or bigger 1/8th huntress but wondering if it’s biting off too much at once to quick, hence thinking of something small and basic. Model boats mag had a good basic model the other month (forget the name, designer took idea from the wife’s puzzle) but a bit frustrated that the plan has no materials list, seems like easy thing to include to help beginers?


Mantua Models is near me, they sell sheet wood but I was not sure what I might want when I went in this week, they had just sold the River Police kit they had - trying to shop local if I can!


Have to see if there is a local timber merchant that sells higher grade ply than the diy places as I like that idea of getting a bigger sheet of 3mm and something thinner to experiment with.


Thanks again for comments.

[Colin Bishop]

Although the 1:16 Faireys may seem small they are a decent size and go together really well plus they have all the performance you could ask for with the recommended setup.

Colin

[roycv]

H waiting... You can buy the Police boat plan on-line, I think a Phil Smith relative is selling them.  Perhaps someone can point out who?
I have a plan and it is all you need to build from.  You first construct a box and all else stems from there.  There is balsa mentioned for some of the part bulkheads but it is a simple to make model.  Most other stuff is available.  There are several build blogs I think and I have seen some really remarkable detailed models.

The model is of a Thames police launch and is very attractive at 26 inches loa.  The Thames would perhaps limit the normal speed, I believe the hull and s/s was developed from a war time Sea plane tender, the nearest would be the Adamcraft kit version as mentioned in the last Model Boat magazine.
Hope this might help.
Regards
Roy

[Waiting2Retire]

Colin - your not reply helping with those pics 


I like the Huntsman/Huntress more than the Swordsman, and I know with modern brushless and Lipo they must go really well - possibly too well with torque roll at high powers? I am really drawn to dual prop like the real thing, with counter-rotating props it might counter the roll, and with modern transmitters you can mix rudder into throttle - and I like to over-complicate things to play with!    (anyone tried servo controlled trim tabs?!)


I was looking at the 1/8th Huntress as it has more room inside than the 1/16th Huntsman 31 to fulfil my dual prop dreams, but aside from the space to fit dual motor like the real thing I have nothing against the 1/16th Huntsman and its more car boot friendly (my Vic Smeed inherited model is 54" - I still remember as a kid trying to go on holiday when I insisted we take the boat!).


The motors on the larger 1/8th model are not that much more expensive, the ESC adds a premium (staying single prop) as you need to move up to something a bit more beefy but it seems to be the prop shaft(s) that climbs the cost. I think I have read ALL the threads now on Fairey's and taken notes, I can see Dave Milbourn says in several the shaft for the 1/8th was 5mm not 4mm, I emailed SLEC to confirm and think I just got someone in admin who looked at the website rather than checking answer 4mm. Once you go 5mm you need a 5mm prop - which I know you can get in plastic for tests and prop-shop in metal. Model Boat Bits does the caldercraft prop shafts in 5mm so you don't need to go full bearing and Raboesch level of costs. I am still contemplating the math if you went dual motor you still need 5mm prop shaft as DaveM always insisted or with twice the motors you could lower the Kv and use 4mm shafts. I would always want to over-spec the prop shaft as its not something I would want to change later or risk shaft not being up to the power from the motor(s).


In any case I would want to plank the deck so being reading threads on that, and also how to cloth and resin the hull (seems straightforward with the correct materials not real car scale stuff but fine cloth for planes etc)


Anyway, rambling out loud on the internet again... need to do some more research if I can find a build where they squeezed dual motors into the 600mm/23.5" huntsman.

Paul

[Waiting2Retire]

H waiting... You can buy the Police boat plan on-line, I think a Phil Smith relative is selling them.  Perhaps someone can point out who?
I have a plan and it is all you need to build from.  You first construct a box and all else stems from there.  There is balsa mentioned for some of the part bulkheads but it is a simple to make model.  Most other stuff is available.  There are several build blogs I think and I have seen some really remarkable detailed models.
...
Roy

Thanks Roy, that's helpful, it seems like it should be a really simple build, and to leave "budget" for RC and running gear it feels like something I could build from plans and sheet. I have looked at the build blogs here and on other forums and made notes.


I have been reading up on the Veyron history - the plans are still available from the designers son it seems according to the internet:

Following Phil’s retirement in the early 1980s and the closure of Veron he introduced the Plans Service.  Since he passed away in 2010 it has been continued by his son Colin Smith.
There are over 250 vintage plans available providing accurate copies of Veron aircraft and boats designed by Phil Smith also Bowden and Mercury designs.
Contact Colin Smith for information and lists on 07747 722724 email: csmithbmth@gmail.com

I did some reading on the construction and from what I could find it suggested, as you confirmed, a straightforward build. looks like a nice model too.


I just sent an email to enquire about plans, I have also been leafing through the plans in Model Boats I have and a few books and I can see that most construction is 3mm ply for structure and 1.5mm for hull, and something light for cabin etc as needed so less worried now about ordering some "stock" of those two thicknesses with some square section.


I just looked again at the plan in the July Model Boats and I reckon I could build that as well so can feel some material being ordered and some experimentation coming on. I just chucked out a load of card from Ikea shop the other week which I now realised would have been ideal to template/prototype from the "free" plan I have in a spare hour to get a feel for the size and construction method.


Paul

[Colin Bishop]

There is no reason whatsoever whe you can't build a Huntsman/Swordsman with the scale twin props  at 1/16th but it might be difficult to adapt the SLEC kits as you can see from the photos below.The keel in the kits is designed to accommodate a single prop and reinforcement to the bottom skins would be required to fit two props plus you would need to introduce supporting bulkheads to mount the shafts which could interfere with the deep cockpit which extends low down into the model. So best to build from a plan really as the SLEC kits really don't lend themself to modification.

Both the Huntsman and Swordsman perform well but the Swordsman is the more stable being wider. The Huntsman is very sensitive to the rudder and more than a few degrees can lay the boat on it's side at full speed!

Colin

[Waiting2Retire]

Thanks Colin, I have had a day (minus chores) of reading/absorbing info and came to the same conclusion!


So right now I am leaning towards having a go at the Dave Milbourn 1/12th Huntress 23 plan, number MB2131 from Sarik and buy the wood. I "found" a copy of the Winter Special from 2017 and the build article is very clear on what's involved. Real Huntress was single engine - so build to plan without getting too adventurous, and the wood stock needed is clear from the article.

Huntsman twin prop later there are multiple options. I think the 1/16th is too small to make it all fit and the SLEC kit would need a tweaking exactly the two issues you confirmed, as it was in Model Boats in 2016 Sarik do carry the plan MM2111 so you could adapt from that plan without buying the kit, but I think space constraints are a real issue.

You then have the Vic Smeed 42" Huntsman 1/8th scale plan mm-680, this would give more room but I expect be a heavier older design that needs updating in terms of material thickness as it would have been built for a combustion engine.

Then you have the SLEC 47" big option, lots of room and someone built one twin motor/prop on the model boats forum I saw, but its pretty big at 1.2m to move around and store, and the thread I found made me wary of the design/engineering needed to install the twin prop shafts without a plan to follow (would not be using double couplings like that chap did!).

So Huntress now from plan, and prop twin prop Fairey for the future if the Huntress does not put me off!

I case someone finds this thread later, as of Sep 2023 Colin Smith is still selling Phil Smith plans - had a reply so getting a price for the police launch plan.

Probably order the Huntress plan from Sarik and wait to hear about the Police Boat plan then try to get the wood stock at the local shop if they have what I need and I can get there during the working week (they only open Saturday's and close early - but glad to have one within sensible drive as when you want something like a can of paint halfway through a job its better than the internet!).

[ChrisF]

Hi Paul

Bit late to this thread. Good choice on the Huntress, straightforward build and a nice model. If you haven't got the ply already I'd ditch the Lite Ply and use birch ply, much nicer to work with. The extra weight is minimal and the hull is very bouyant anyway and with the power of brushless motors performance isn't an issue.

A nice companion would be the Huntsman 31 at 1:12/31" long. This would be a better size for twin motors. Sarik do a plan MM 1061. Again I wouldn't worry about the weight as I reckon a bit of extra means the boat is more stable and handles better.

Chris

[sabre]

Somewhere in this film from 1969 is a real Huntsman along with many other speed merchants thrashing along at full chat.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSiFhXtS2iw

[ChrisF]

Paul, you think you're obsessed with Fairey builds!!!

Just remembered a couple of things I did with my Huntress and River Cruiser builds. I cut the deck out in one piece rather than two and where the bulkhead/frames attach I glued some small timbers in place to locate them and provide additional gluing area.

Chris

[Waiting2Retire]

Thanks Sabre for the link.

Just remembered a couple of things I did with my Huntress and River Cruiser builds. I cut the deck out in one piece rather than two and where the bulkhead/frames attach I glued some small timbers in place to locate them and provide additional gluing area.

Chris

Thanks Chris, I am going for the 1/12th DaveM Huntress from plan using build guide in the Winter Special 2017 article, but I have also ordered and received the MM1061 Huntsman plan from Sarik for "later" (never?).


I have the River Police Boat Veron plan now from Colin Smith, and while I had the list I succumbed to the idea of the Vosper RTTL as well so I bought that plan from Colin at the same time.


I have however, still not ordered any wood 


That's hopefully something I get done later after parental duties are completed for the day and I get two minutes peace...

[John W E]

hi there,  I know we are late in the Game - but - if you like DaveM's stuff - here is a model which I built = step by step - and really started off his reincarnation of the Fairey builds.


THE FAIREY SWORDSMAN - A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird (modelboatmayhem.co.uk)


john

[Waiting2Retire]

Thanks John, I had already found your thread in my research, and bought some A3 tracing paper the other week in the back to school sale in WHSmiths as it looked better than the plan and pin prick method.


I also bought a lot of small clamps in a German supermarket middle aisle last month as well, for the various gluing and assembly stages after seeing how many you used to clamp the keel.


The good thing about the 1/12th Huntress is the build guide in the 2017 Winter Special that Dave wrote that covers all the steps in detail as well, but I am reading all the build logs I can to try and learn as much as possible before I start.

[Colin Bishop]

Follow what Dave said and you will be happy!

Colin

[ChrisF]

Paul

If you are a glutton for punishment then my build blogs are on the Model Boats Magazine forum for my Huntress (albeit with a stern-drive) and River Cruiser (similar hull and build).

You can never have too many clamps!

Chris

[Waiting2Retire]

I think I looked at all of them now Chris, Fairey builds on here and model boats - next step is to glue my fingers to some wood to much looking not enough doing!


Going to place an order with SLEC for some wood and then supplement missing bits (I am sure there will be some) later from the local model shop, boat by xmas is the plan!

[John W E]

hi there Paul


Doesn't matter how long it takes to build your model; 'the plan' is to enjoy building it - no rush - take your time - and then you will enjoy building it.   There will be a few frustrating times and that is guaranteed; but keep on with the build.   


John

[Waiting2Retire]

Doesn't matter how long it takes to build your model; 'the plan' is to enjoy building it - no rush - take your time - and then you will enjoy building it.   There will be a few frustrating times and that is guaranteed; but keep on with the build.   

John

I didn’t say which Christmas…    the river boat is for my nephew so the plan is to try and get that finished for Christmas then apply what I learnt from that to the slightly more complex huntress… but I know what you mean enjoy the journey and don’t stress to a deadline.

[John W E]

well hello Paul


I note you live in Reading.   Do you live anywhere near Woodley?    I often used to sail my model at the lake when my relatives live in Woodley.  We used to go down there for a holiday.  Happy memories for me at that large lake.


John

[Waiting2Retire]

Hi John,


I am south of Reading, was that Denton Pastures where the lake was?
https://www.wokinghamcountryside.co.uk/dinton-pastures-country-park


I am still trying to get my existing boat back on the water (see https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,69515.msg754796.html#msg754796) but I wondered if there or California country park might be suitable locations, they are council owned, not looked into any rules and regs yet around that?


Back when I was a lad... used to to sale the boat on Bushy Park pond, so happy to hear that's still going and I see they even have a fancy pier to launch from - not when I was a lad where every launch carried a fair risk of going in head first