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Author Topic: Type 22 flag locker location  (Read 1643 times)

17-09

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Type 22 flag locker location
« on: January 06, 2024, 11:23:07 am »

Hi All,
 Can anyone tell me where the flag locker or lockers were located on a batch 1 type 22 please.
I can't find them on my jecobin drawing of HMS Brilliant. Any close up shots of the mid detail on Brilliant would also be appreciated. I have the type 22 modern combat ships vol 4 book.
Again many thanks in anticipation
17-09 Alan....
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T888

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Re: Type 22 flag locker location
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2024, 12:17:24 pm »

I believe this is the location, this where I put my flag lockers on my 1/96 HMS Cornwall. I know Cornwall is a Batch 3 but, Knowing how the RN designers work, the location on the Batch 3 would not have changed from the Batch 1 locations.
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Regards David

17-09

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Re: Type 22 flag locker location
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2024, 09:01:17 pm »

Thank you David,
The batch 3 were quite different in the midships section around the foremast from the batch 1's. In a video I have just seen, I thought I caught a glimpse of what I think is a flag locker on the lower starboard side of the the foremast. Would there be another on the portside?
Thanks again
17-09 Alan...
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T888

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Re: Type 22 flag locker location
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2024, 09:25:04 pm »

Alan,


They would have a flag locker port and Stb,


Found this pic of Ex HMS Brazen May help
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Regards David

littoralcombat

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Re: Type 22 flag locker location
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2024, 04:23:25 am »

Hi Gents,
Alan, it depends on when in Brilliant's RN service your model is depicting her? If you are building her as she was early in her career, let's say during Op Corporate in 1982, then the Signal-Flag lockers were either side of the Foremast. I think if you check again, your Jecobin Drg does indeed show them on a view looking at the Aft face of the Foremast.
However, all four Batch 1's were modified later in RN life, during which a small compartment was created Port and Starboard by plating in the corner where the lockers were originally fitted. I believe they were then moved to the Aft face of these new structures.
David, the picture you posted of HMS Brazen is actually, as you may be aware, of her as BNS Bosisio in the Brazilian Navy, by which time the new arrangement obviously existed following her sale.
For clarity, I'm attaching an image of Broadsword with her Port Locker circled. Also, two views from the original Shipbuilders Batch 1 GA Drg's showing the area in question.
I hope this info helps.
Nige
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17-09

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Re: Type 22 flag locker location
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2024, 08:42:52 pm »

Hi Nige and David,
 Thanks so much for sending the info about the flag lockers, your drawings are really great Nige and you have both identified the precise location of them and that is where they will be fitted. May I be cheeky and ask another question ? what is the large rectangle plate on the forward face of the foremast and the after face of the mainmast? it seems to be painted white or light grey with some small fittings added to it.
Thanks again for you help, much appreciated.
Regards
 17-09 Alan......
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littoralcombat

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Re: Type 22 flag locker location
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2024, 06:21:34 pm »

Hi Alan,
The plates you refer to on the Foremast and Mainmast were called 'TARM Boards'. I don't know what TARM stands for, but suspect it begins with 'Target'  :o .
I believe they were used to calibrate the various components on the Type 910 Target Tracking/Guidance Radars for Seawolf, which when rotated 180 degrees from their respective 'stowed' positions are in-line with their associated boards.
Generally painted grey overall, sometimes with white lines.


As far as fittings go, there is a rectangular metal box, which I seem to remember had a GRP front face cover, also painted grey. There was also a small rectangular mirror and a small black 'spider-web' type target which I think was on an extension plate on the lower edge of the board.


Attached again is a snippet of the Builders Drawings showing the Aft set-up, as well as two pictures which will help make things clearer. One of Battleaxe and the other of Charybdis (which had the same arrangement as the T22).
Hope this helps, feel free to ask anything else, always happy to help where I can. I myself am planning on building Broadsword.......when time permits  :-) .


Nige

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ballastanksian

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Re: Type 22 flag locker location
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2024, 08:58:06 pm »

How interesting! Every day is a school day on this forum. It never occurred to me that radar would need on board calibration, thinking that it would be done in harbour somehow!



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Capt Podge

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Re: Type 22 flag locker location
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2024, 10:25:31 pm »

Just tried looking up the acronym TARM - it seems to be Tactical Anti Radiation Missile


Before looking on Google I thought it would mean Target Acquisition Reflecting Mirror - or something like that anyway :embarrassed:


Cheers,
Ray.
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littoralcombat

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Re: Type 22 flag locker location
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2024, 12:45:48 am »

Just tried looking up the acronym TARM - it seems to be Tactical Anti Radiation Missile


Before looking on Google I thought it would mean Target Acquisition Reflecting Mirror - or something like that anyway :embarrassed:


Cheers,
Ray.
Hi Ray.
I've just emailed a Friend of mine in the UK who is ex-RN and is a bit of a Guru when it comes to RN 'Greenie' kit. I'd be surprised if he can't give us the meaning.
Nige
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littoralcombat

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Re: Type 22 flag locker location
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2024, 08:20:59 pm »

Gents,
Confirmation from some very helpful ex-Marconi Engineers.
TARM stood for, 'Tracker Alignment Reference Marker'. I won't relate everything I was told, except to say that each board:
"was used on the TV Guidance System for checking the TV boresight for Gather and Guide and their alignment to the electrical and mechanical boresight of the Camera to the Tracker boresight. The box had various lights in it for TV lock on. The boards were placed at a set distance for each of the Trackers and were individually designed and calibrated to that Tracker; having the same serial number. The radar boresights were also checked against the board".

My ex-RN Mate had never been involved with Sea Wolf, he mainly dealt with Sea Dart. However, he did say that even today, such is their expertise, that the Engineers who worked for Marconi:
"are still the 'go to guys' on a number of radar related technologies".

Nige



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Capt Podge

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Re: Type 22 flag locker location
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2024, 11:24:26 pm »

Cheers Nige and very much appreciated, answers the question very nicely indeed.


Ray.
 :-))
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17-09

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Re: Type 22 flag locker location
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2024, 03:06:21 pm »

Hello Nige,
 Thanks so much for the very comprehensive reply, my apologies for not replying before but I have been inactive for a while. I can now add these features to my model, the photo is very useful.
As a guru on type 22's, I have another question for you, on the batch one's such as Brilliant there is a aerial location point at deck level behind the mainmast against the forward hanger bulkhead. The fitting is protected by guardrails, In my drawing of Brilliant the side elevations do not correspond with the plan view and anyway I cannot see what the fitting is, any ideas please?
 Thanks in anticipation
 17-09 Alan.....

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