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[Tim Logan]

Has anyone used the MSM steam engine setup designed specifically for the North Light? I am curious as to how it performs. Any feedback would be most appreciated. Thank you.

[ooyah/2]

Has anyone used the MSM steam engine setup designed specifically for the North Light? I am curious as to how it performs. Any feedback would be most appreciated. Thank you.

Hi Tim
I wonder who said that the engine you quote is designed to fit the Northlight Puffer ?


The engine looks very like a copy of the Cheddar  Puffin in line twin oscillating engine which would be too tall to fit into a Calder craft Puffer.
I am not sure what the scale of the Calder craft  Puffer is but it would be a bit of a squeeze to fit in.
 Here are some pics of how I built my Puffer which is no longer in my possession


.Some years ago when  I scratch built  a Clyde puffer at 1/2" to 1 Foot and used a Cheddar  "V"  twin with enlarged bores  from 7/16"  up to 1/2" bore and the drive was a toothed belt down to the main shaft and with a Horizontal  3" dia  boiler  and that all was a squeeze.

My puffer at 1/2" to the foot was 33" long by 9" wide which is much larger than the Calder craft puffer and I don't think it would work to try to fit your proposed engine and a boiler  into the Calder craft puffer.


I do hope that this will be a help to you.

George.

[roycv]

Im the Toy museum at Brighton is a steam driven Billing Mary Ann, which is 22 inches long.
Roy

[Circlip]

Perhaps the 'Midwest' unit could be fitted? Tis a single cylinder Oscillator (Wobbler as those on that side of the pond know them) but you might have to do some home cooking (bad pun) for a horizontal boiler.


 Regards  Ian.


 Don't look too closely at Georges 'Efforts'. Salivation becomes excessive.

[ooyah/2]

Hi Ian


You may well be correct, I assumed that it was a twin cylinder in line twin that MSM make Tim was asking about which in no way would it fit into a Clyde puffer of 1/32" scale.


I don't think that  a single cylinder  engine and the spirit burner used in the Fantail launch would have enough Puff  to drive hull of the puffer Northlight


The unit for the Fantail could well be fitted into the Northlight with a vertical boiler and the single cylinder engine astern of the boiler but would need a belt drive down to the Prop shaft.


Many years ago we had a club member called Phil ?? who was a master at small 12" steam boats, unfortunately I can't remember his surname, tragically Phil was killed out walking in the Glencoe area , stumbled and fell to his death.


Steam boats with 12" length and under hulls can be built but skill is needed to machine parts for very small boats, I know of nobody where small specialized parts can be bought.


George.   

[Circlip]

Hiya Mate, yes, it was/is used in the Fantail but in TLOTF, Midwest seem to to call it up for their range of Laughing Whale/Midwest creations - Harbour tug, Fireboat, Drifter etc.


 Regards  Ian.

[Tim Logan]

Thanks George and Ian. MSM has designed a steam plant specifically for the North Light complete with kit specific instructions. If you go to this link and scroll down you will see an additional link to the instruction manual for this kit which should answer any of the questions raised by you. Thanks again.
https://miniaturesteammodels.com/en-us/products/north-light-clyde-puffer-msm-rc-steam-plant

[ooyah/2]

Thanks George and Ian. MSM has designed a steam plant specifically for the North Light complete with kit specific instructions. If you go to this link and scroll down you will see an additional link to the instruction manual for this kit which should answer any of the questions raised by you. Thanks again.
https://miniaturesteammodels.com/en-us/products/north-light-clyde-puffer-msm-rc-steam-plant

Hi Tim
On your first post when I looked up the MSM web site there was no indication of the plant designed specifically for the  Northlight Puffer, they only showed a twin engine more akin to the Cheddar twin engine which would not fit into the Northlight.
However with the new post and the link to MSM it brings up the steam plant for the Northlight.


I looks like a good plant to fit the Puffer and they have found out that the engine has to go into the hold in front of the boiler with the drive shaft going below the boiler.


As your original question was regarding the performance of the plant I can't say how it will perform as I have no experience of the MSM plant.
Perhaps some member who has knowledge of this will comment, unfortunately I don't  know of anybody who has installed a steam plant in a Northlight Puffer.


George.

[Tim Logan]

Thank you George.

[Bunkerbarge]

Tim, I've run a number of the MSM 2" boiler units on the workbench for review purposes for the magazine.  The challenges you will have with the Northlight all relate to available space, which is not only limited but not of the most accommodating shape at the back end.  The MSN plant designed for this model gets around this by mounting the engine in the hold and running the drive shaft under the boiler.  This is a neat design, ballasts the model better and makes best use of the space.  You are still limited by boiler capacity however but, with careful preparation and operation you should expect to get up to 15 minutes of duration in the Northlight.  That is unless you are going at full speed constantly, in which case less than ten minutes might be more realistic.  I have heard of someone in Australia geting longer but I cannot confirm that.  I think between ten and fifteen minutes would be realistic.  Bearing in mind the capacity of the gas tank, lubricator and separator, this is in line with the overall duration and a 15 minute run should be what to aim for.  I think this is the best plant you are likely to get into the Northlight at 1/32nd scale.


If you feel the need to go for a longer duration than that you could look into the Mount Fleet  Highlander kit which, at 1/24th scale does give you that bit more room.  We have a superbly put together example in my own club that uses a  three and a half inch diameter Libre vertical boiler from Clevedon Steam in the UK, paired with one of thier in line twin cylinder oscillators.  This still required a home made short coupling to get the engine as far back as was needed but this allowed a three and a half inch boiler to sit directly below the model funnel.  This model comfortably stays out on the water for 15 to 20 minutes.


Uselful links:


Mountfleet Highlander:  https://www.mountfleetmodels.co.uk/product/highlander/


Clevedon Steam: https://www.clevedonsteam.co.uk/products.html#Libra%20Vertical%20Plant%20Kit


The Libra in  Highlander:

[Tim Logan]

Bunkerbarge -
  Thank you for such a helpful and informative response. I have to admit to being somewhat dismayed by the short run times associated with steam power. I suspect the only way around that is to have a much larger model which in turn would require a much more expensive steam plant. I have considered the Sir Lancelot - the total price of that plus the steam plant is also a bit mind-boggling. Still, there is something quite fascinating about live steam.

[Bunkerbarge]

A three and a half inch boiler in a three to four foot model can usually be expected to give you somewhere in the range of 20 minutes.  A bit more if you're careful and a bit less if you go full speed all the time.  This usually aligns with the need to top up the lubricator, empty the separator, top up the gas and top up the boiler.  Most steam modellers get into a routine and can turn their models around on the bank surprisingly quickly.  Having said that it is all a pretty relaxed approach anyway, unless you are into steam straight running of course, so it works out quite well as a routine.  Smaller boilers do give you less run time, even with a smaller model, so you just have to adjust your approach accordingly.


Even getting into the realms of bigger boilers and feed systems you then have to have bigger lubricators and bigger separator tanks to be able to benefit from the longer runs so many are content with the 20 minute run then have a coffee and a chat before going out again.

[Tim Logan]

Ahhhh….. thank you so much. That increases my understanding greatly and I can see that if the turnaround time can be made to be fairly quick, it would not be an issue then. Knowing so little about steam, in other words absolutely nothing, makes it difficult even to know what questions to ask. The MSM site has some excellent introductory material on it. One thing that it points out is confusing: where to get the Butane/propane mix for the fuel and, apparently, steam oil is not something you just run down to the store and buy. May I ask what products are used in the UK or sources? Thank you.

[Bunkerbarge]

A lot of modellers get the gas from camping equipment suppliers.  That might be a good place to start in the States.  A lot depends on whether you intend using refillable tanks or disposable tanks.  Disposable tanks are handy and can be changed out to help reduce the gas cooling effects but they tend to be a lot more expensive in the smaller size, usually 100g.  Refillable tanks can suffer from the gas cooling effects but it helps if they are mounted on a common base with the boiler.  They can then be refilled from larger gas tanks, which work out a lot cheaper.


For steam oil have a look on line in the Staes for model engineering supply places.  You can also buy it from Miniature Steam Models.  Interestingly most steam oil you buy tends to be of a very high viscosity as it is formulated for a wide range of steam engines. This makes it quite a challenge to fill a very small displacement lubricator on a small model engine.  MSM steam oil is a very much lower viscosity oil so much easier to fill the lubricator and better suited to a small model engine. 


Have a look through the information on here, you will find it very useful.  They list suppliers as well as a page of useful associated links:


http://www.modelengineeringsociety.com/

[Tim Logan]

Thank you Bunkerbarge - this is very helpful!

[Circlip]

Wonder how many realise how long 15mins is when stick twiddling?


  Regards   Ian.

[Tim Logan]

Bunkerbarge -
  You mentioned that you had written some articles reviewing steam engines in a magazine. Could you tell me what magazine that is please and perhaps what issues? Again, thank you for your thoughtful and helpful responses.

[Bunkerbarge]

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