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[DougG]

HI  I have purchased a partly finished type S100 E Boat.  It is just a little over 57 inches long with an 8 inch beam. It has a fibre glass hull but that is all I know about it. I would like to build this but I have no idea about manufacturer of the hull (or kit?) and I wondered if anyone have any idea who may have produced it. It must be quite old as the previous builder passed away some time ago, There were no plans or other information available so I am a little stumped.
What I particularly liked about it (E boats have always one of my favourite models) is that it is large enough to have working torpedoes that can be launched.
Any help or guidance would be greatly received.

[Shipmate60]

The hull was made by Martins Models who eventually sold the moulds on.
The fitting set was by Precision Controlls who now trade with John's son as Battlecrafts.
Good quality but not cheap.
Does yours have the running gear fitted.


Bob

[DougG]

Thanks you for the info Bob it's very helpful.


The three prop shaft tubes are fitted and look in good order but I will have to replace the bearings in them as there are imperial size and not metric. The three holes/bearings for the rudder are in place but that is all. The front part of the forward cabin/bridge is in place and looks o/k but the rest of the superstructure is badly warped and will need to be rebuilt.
I intend to run her on three brushless motors with tank steering and perhaps even with the offset outer rudders as per original, ultimately I want to redo the tubes so that they will fire live torpedoes using a magnetic switch to turn them on as they leave the tubes but this will take a lot of surgery because the tube doors are already glued into the closed position.
I am looking forward to this and will start as soon as I have finished my TB 75  1875 steam torpedo boat ( except that it will be electric)  it should be completed by the end of this week
Doug

[mountfleet]

The mould is with me now
Adam
Mountfleet

[DougG]

Hi Adam  that's good to know, do you have any  more of the kit such as mouldings deck fittings etc ?    Doug G

[mountfleet]

It came to me as just a hull and plan. I think Battlecraft do some of the fittings.

[jaymac]

 I have the same boat  I was running on 3 '850's but came down to one prop one brushless just as fast. Granted I  was only using one. battery for 3 motors. Could be worth to  try the same before you spend

[DougG]

Hi jaymac
Thanks for the info, I think it is a fabulous boat and have always wanted to build one.
As I already have the motors, which I saved from my model airplane days, I will try the three as I am a fan of tank steering and will programme the transmitter so that when I turn the rudder the centre prop will stop and the outside prop will proportionally increase whilst the inner prop will decrease dependant on the amount of rudder throw.[size=78%] [/size]
I have not tried this before but my friend in the club runs this system on his twin screw runabout (minus the stopping of the centre prop which should not be too much of a problem) with great success and it saves juggling two sticks.
This  will be some time in the future as there is an awful lot of work to be done but I will let you know through this forum if it is successful (or not)  Doug G

[derekwarner]

Morning Doug......


Reading the various articles from the German, British and Americans on these fast boat design, all appear to have drawn the same conclusions..... that to attain the vessel speeds needed, required a huge increase in motive power, or the 3rd engine


The same articles mostly agreed that the control of the center engine created a huge number of issues    over and above those in a simple twin-engined drive


Pretty sure we all understand the twin-engined model & the mixed tank steering OK, however suddenly dropping 1/3 of the vessels power at the commencement of any change in helm command for a Port or Stdb turn would be a rather dramatic action?


Derek

[MikeMcP]

hello Doug
given that I know nothing about such things . . .
I can understand increasing the outer prop speed and decreasing the inner prop speed
but why stop the centre prop at all?

not only simpler (simple = good), but it will keep the total power more or less constant

of course, if you are already at full pelt, you'd need to lower the inner speed by x, and the middle by x/2?

cheers
Mike

[Circlip]

"Reading the various articles from the German, British and Americans on these fast boat design, all appear to have drawn the same conclusions..... that to attain the vessel speeds needed, required a huge increase in motive power, or the 3rd engine"

Bit of a difference on the power to weight ratio of a proper boat to a toy sized one.

Regards  Ian.

[derekwarner]

"bit of a difference on the power to weight ratio of a proper boat to a toy sized one"

yep, but its still all about scale ...that 3rd prop is a scale can of worms


Derek

[DougG]

Hi I seem to have created a point of debate here-
I may have this wrong but it seems to me that the further apart the two props are then the more leverage (if this is the right term to use ) there is to make the boat turn. If you have the centre prop turning then it will want to push the boat straight ahead which will (to some degree) affect the  turning moment of the outer prop and the reversing effect of the inboard prop. I suppose that one answer would be to try it first without the centre prop and then re-programme to try it with the centre prop running
As you have probably  gathered I  am no expert on this and there are those of you in the forum who are much more experienced and knowledgeable than I am so hopefully, you will continue to offer me the fruits of your experience and wisdom  Doug G

[philk]

I have one of these based on the abco hull. Mine has two 550's on the outers on 12 volt lead acid with a mixer independent on the left stick as you really don't need one at speed. The center motor is a 550 sized brushless running on a 3 cell lipo forward only on a turny knob for speed only

[DougG]

Many thanks every one - this really has given me food for thought.  MikeMcP I do like your idea of dropping the rev's on both the inner and central props  by X plus 2 for the inner and X plus 1 for the centre -it sounds feasible. I will give it a try when I get to the stage of putting her on the water. This is going to be a long job as there is a lot of surgery required to modify the torpedo tubes to fire the torpedo's because the front superstructure is firmly glued to the hull, but that is part of the fun of building models.  If you are interested I will let you know through this forum how successful it was when I have tested it on the water Doug G

[Andy-H]

I happen to have a 1/24 or so scale S-100.  Mine was built plank on frame, no idea whose plans were used, if any, I bought it from a gentleman's estate and they had no idea of it's origin or history.  It's set up with 3 shafts and 3 rudders, using a twin motor truck-type ESC on the outboard shafts and a single ESC on the inboard.  I run on 2s lipos.


Observations:  She's almost as fast on the single center shaft as on the two outboard shafts.  My speed is actually limited by the bow wave, which moves aft along the hull as speed increases.  At some point it overwashes the deck, and given that there's no coaming around the access hatch, I get water in the boat.  At that point the first 1/3 of the hull is out of the water, which looks very scale to me, and she will attain that speed on on the center shaft alone.    I've thought about experimenting with Lurssen rudders which would keep the bow down, and have some thoughts on how to do it, but I think it looks very scale, and fast, as it is, so probablly not.  The only issues I'm fighting, propulsion wise, are heat in the motors, as there is no water cooling.  However, using high turn crawler brushed motors and smaller props has kept it at a mangeable level. 


On the outboard shafts she's very manuverable at speed.  At steerage, not so much.  However, on the single center shaft, she's very manuverable.  It will also walk the stern, surprising given that it's not a heavy boat.  I have no issues backing away from docks/etc. 


It's one of my favorites to run, other than taking water over the deck if I'm too liberal with the throttles she runs very dry and handles chop very well. 








Those pics are as received, first time on the water.  I've since gotten some armament from Battlecrafts, excellent stuff and a great company to deal with. 

[DougG]

HI Andy-H
That looks great, are you going to the show at Kettering this year if so I would love to see it close up.
I have not been able to do much on mine for all sorts of reasons but have moved on over the Christmas holidays . The deck has been rebuilt, the motors in place and my children have kindly  brought the guns lifeboats crew and speed controllers as Christmas presents so I can get stuck into it know.  I am still figuring out the best way on how to modify the existing torpedo tubes so that I can fire torpedoes from them without hacking the existing superstructure about too much.  DougG

[Sub driver]

Hi.
Speaking about 3 shafts and rudders.

You should read about the Lurssen effect on high speed boats, this is where the 3 rudders come into play, the outer two rudders are actually moved outward incrementally as speed increases which lowers the rear of the boat and lifts the bow, it also increased top speed by about 2 Knots.
It was very effective.
Regards.
Sub.

[Andy-H]

Thanks for the compliment Doug, I can't take much credit as it came to me like that.  I'd love to bring it to a show, but I'm afraid I'm on the wrong side of the large pond for that!

[Andy-H]

I pulled the prop shafts to clean/lube, and that required pulling the rudders.  Since they were out and I was mildly bored, I decided to implement Lurssen effect rudders.  I looked at several mechanical linkage setups, and decided for simplicity sake to simply use 3 servos and mixes. 


Which turned out to be harder than I thought, given that Futaba only has 4 custom mixes, and 4 is what were needed to implement the rudders, and I'm already using a mix for the throttles. 


So I got out the DX8, and after just a little fiddling around I arrived at a setup.  It allows for using just the center rudder with the outboard rudders straight, all 3 rudders, and again the center rudder but with the outboard rudders kicked outward ~ 30 degrees or so.  Fine tuning to be done next time I have it at the lake. 


Picture included, I'll try and embed a video of them working...


https://a65l.smugmug.com/RC-subs/i-M8jhqmL/A