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Author Topic: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long  (Read 1538 times)

SimonCornes

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Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« on: January 13, 2025, 11:57:19 am »

I have a 1/96th Type 22 frigate and a 1/72 Type 21 which I am refurbishing. I have been told that the 22 would be best with 500 series motors and the 21 with 600 series. I think I will probably use a 3S LiPo pack.
I know that, back in the day, low current 545's were frequently recommended but things change so much and products also seem to get more varied that I thought that it would be easier to ask the collective knowledge of this site for an opinion on both so what do you recommend and where is the best source for what you have in mind?


Many thanks

Simon 
 

 

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HMS Invisible

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2025, 01:36:42 pm »

Direct drive 555 motors for both of them.
That's even without knowing anything about your props or number thereof.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2025, 01:40:01 pm »

555s obtainable from Component Shop

https://www.componentshop.co.uk/motors/dc-brushed-motors.html?p=3

Specs given with the advert for each motor.

Colin
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SimonCornes

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2025, 04:33:41 pm »

Thanks guys, so 555’s it is then!! Just a matter of trying to decide which one of the three listed now. Prices are certainly okay though and I’ve got mounts already. Next will be couplings then we’re cooking with gas!!
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T888

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2025, 04:51:13 pm »

Simon,


For my type 26 I’m using twin 555 running on 12v. The type 26 is 1575 mm length.
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Regards David

SimonCornes

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2025, 07:46:43 pm »

Ive got to say that choosing one motor out of the 3 on offer is not exactly straightforward !

The bog standard 555 - 9 to 15v range, 5100 rpm, 0.36A at max efficiency and 420 Nm/m torque. Exposed shaft 10.9mm shaft diameter 3.175mm and with a flat on the shaft
The high torque 555 HT - 9 to 30v range, 4800 rpm, 1.3A at max efficiency and 261 g/cm torque. Exposed shaft 8.6mm, same shaft diameter no flat on the shaft
The 555L - 9 to 15v range, 5100 rpm, 0,36A at max efficiency and 420 NM/m. Exposed shaft 10.9mm. Appears to be a pin through shaft like a 'dog' ?

All the same price at £9.50 but only 3 of the last one left, does that mean it's better than the other two? The middle one pulls a lot more current and the torque indication is not using the same units - apparently 261g/cm is equivalent to .0255 Newton Metres so that makes no sense to me!
With this information, which of the 3 would you choose ??
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NickelBelter

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2025, 07:53:32 pm »

Length of the boat doesn't matter, it's the diameter of the props (and also the pitch and blade count, to a lesser degree)
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T888

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2025, 08:22:34 pm »

I know the length of the hull doesn’t matter. It was given just for info as my t26 is running standard 555 with larger props than the type 22 will require.
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Regards David

HMS Invisible

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2025, 09:32:38 pm »

Ive got to say that choosing one motor out of the 3 on offer is not exactly straightforward !

The bog standard 555 - 9 to 15v range, 5100 rpm, 0.36A at max efficiency and 420 Nm/m torque. Exposed shaft 10.9mm shaft diameter 3.175mm and with a flat on the shaft
The high torque 555 HT - 9 to 30v range, 4800 rpm, 1.3A at max efficiency and 261 g/cm torque. Exposed shaft 8.6mm, same shaft diameter no flat on the shaft
The 555L - 9 to 15v range, 5100 rpm, 0,36A at max efficiency and 420 NM/m. Exposed shaft 10.9mm. Appears to be a pin through shaft like a 'dog' ?

All the same price at £9.50 but only 3 of the last one left, does that mean it's better than the other two? The middle one pulls a lot more current and the torque indication is not using the same units - apparently 261g/cm is equivalent to .0255 Newton Metres so that makes no sense to me!
With this information, which of the 3 would you choose ??
A US based surplus vendor had a six figure amount of RS555-3255 many years ago. Times have changed and they can be sourced from Aliexpress these days.
What you can do to assist is give telling photos of the props. It's much better to have a current or rpm reading on a known motor to see how much your prop is loading that calibrated motor. However I don't expect you to have a tacho.

I would have crunched numbers for you by now but I've had to buy a new phone and won't be looking in here again until tomorrow.
In short, my method of making a meaningful comparison of two motor data sets is to manipulate voltage up or down so the V x Istall product for the two motors matches. The slower turning motor suits a larger prop.
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SimonCornes

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2025, 08:00:52 pm »

The 1/72 T21 actually has motors in it. The blue label on the can says Hi-Tork 6 Volt, 0.13 Kgcm/Amp, No load speed 5500 rpm, stall current 12A, maximum power 20W at 6.7A and 2700 rpm. Does that ring any bells?? The new Prop Shop props are 52mm 5 bladers on 5mm shafts so I'm wondering how well the 555 motors would cope and how a 555 compares with the units currently installed? I was thinking about using either a 2S or 3S LiPo plus ballast but I guess the original power source was a fairly chunky 6v gel cell?
Opinions much appreciated please!!
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HMS Invisible

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2025, 08:34:44 pm »

The 1/72 T21 actually has motors in it. The blue label on the can says Hi-Tork 6 Volt, 0.13 Kgcm/Amp, No load speed 5500 rpm, stall current 12A, maximum power 20W at 6.7A and 2700 rpm. Does that ring any bells?? The new Prop Shop props are 52mm 5 bladers on 5mm shafts so I'm wondering how well the 555 motors would cope and how a 555 compares with the units currently installed? I was thinking about using either a 2S or 3S LiPo plus ballast but I guess the original power source was a fairly chunky 6v gel cell?
Opinions much appreciated please!!

I tested & badged those motors about 30 years ago. On the plastic end bells you'll see low voltage motors ltd

 You can rely on the motor data.  ;) . Before a switch to electronics I designed 3 phase machines and worked for a couple of major suppliers that got swamped by foreign competition..

You can actually draw a performance graph from these figures I drew up. You can't do anything useful with the performance numbers you quoted from three 555 motors, unless you actually re tested or knew what the actual motors were.
The Hi Tork motors equate to the mfa 540ln or a 540 and 545 geared 2:1.
 A 555 manages a bit bigger. 500 size of motor is fine but not a Graupner 500. 540 & 545 would be over propped in direct drive.
So if a tacho says 2750 loaded & 5500 unloaded you are OK but would be better with a 555 or a tiny reduction until the revs are above half the 5500. You are OK on 2s lipo or Li-Ion

I kept a few dozen of the right 555s for my private nest egg but I'm able to replace them now.
PM me if you want 555s matching the RS555-3255 data I posted on Mayhem before.
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SimonCornes

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2025, 10:43:45 pm »

I am so glad that you know what those motors are ! Having read what you’ve said I’m wondering if I’m best sticking with them or using the new 555 motors? I must admit that I was thinking of using a higher voltage but if I did that with the hi tork motors would they expire pretty quickly as they’re designed for 6v max? When I’m thinking motors I’m thinking of a decent scale top speed for the model and a real 21 could do 30 knots so do you think a realistic performance would be possible with those motors with the model down to its proper waterline?
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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2025, 11:06:40 pm »

I am so glad that you know what those motors are ! Having read what you’ve said I’m wondering if I’m best sticking with them or using the new 555 motors? I must admit that I was thinking of using a higher voltage but if I did that with the hi tork motors would they expire pretty quickly as they’re designed for 6v max? When I’m thinking motors I’m thinking of a decent scale top speed for the model and a real 21 could do 30 knots so do you think a realistic performance would be possible with those motors with the model down to its proper waterline?
  I used blue and green labels on the nominal 6v motors and yellow on the 12v, which had twice the turn number.
You can get an infra-red laser tacho for a tenner on Ebay. If you are above 2700 rpm on 6v you are fine and you can go to 2s.
 These motors are ideal and loads of folk up in Scotland used them on the scale brass props. In the morning I could be refreshed and capabable to post an arithmetic comparison with Mabuchi 555-3255 vs 540Ln and  vs Hi-Tork. It would show if I was wrong on the prior post about the 555 managing a bigger prop.

 
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SimonCornes

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2025, 08:36:30 am »

Thank you so much for the effort you are putting in on my behalf! Looks like I might end up with a spare pair of 555’s as I ordered four from Component Shop!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2025, 11:27:07 am »

You may be able to get a refund for the two unwanted ones subject to a restocking charge (and of course posting them back). See 'Returns' on their website.

Colin
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SimonCornes

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Re: Motors for two warships, both about 5 feet long
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2025, 03:44:17 pm »

They’ve already gone into ‘stock’ Colin, fully marked up with what they are and what they’re for, unlike the vast majority of my spare motors!!
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