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Author Topic: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not  (Read 11902 times)

Colin Bishop

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2007, 10:00:18 PM »

Cunard have been owned by the American Carnival corporation for yonks and are now just one of their marketing arms.

The UK shipbuilding industry no longer has the capacity or expertise to build sizable passenger vessels. Most now come from Finland or Italy. In fact the UK shipbuilding/ship repairing industry now has limited capacity full stop. Recent Governments didn't consider it to be very important.
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DickyD

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2007, 12:18:45 PM »

Didn't I just say that ? >>:-(
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2007, 01:17:29 PM »

No Richard, you said it yesterday!  ;D
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DickyD

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2007, 01:23:57 PM »

Sorry, didn't I say that on the 1st December.  ::)
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2007, 03:42:58 PM »

...The UK shipbuilding industry no longer has the capacity or expertise to build sizable passenger vessels. Most now come from Finland or Italy. In fact the UK shipbuilding/ship repairing industry now has limited capacity full stop. Recent Governments didn't consider it to be very important.

which, being totally off topic here, HAS KILLED BRITISH INDUSTRIAL MIGHT AND IS UTTERLY DISGRACEFUL
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Positive

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2007, 09:47:47 PM »

I sailed in seven of the castles between 1965 & 1976 & would not have swapped any of them for the strange looking things that are floating about today.     This is the last big one I sailed in, EDINBURGH CASTE, 27,000 gross tons.     I did my last 13 years at sea aboard the two tiny passenger ships ST. HELENA (I) & ST. HELENA (II) that took over the run after the demise of Union-Castle.
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footskijunior

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2007, 07:38:49 PM »

have seen a lot of the super liners on m y travels around the Carribbean, and i agree, none have the same stunning lines as the QE2 and the Canberra, they are just a glorified block of flats in my opinion, and I have a feeling that they will get too big, and we will have another Titanic on our hands...
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Liverbudgie

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2007, 08:30:19 PM »

More to the point it is the EU which will not allow large vessels to built in the UK - it is not policy apparently. One more reason to to dump the whole e****g lot and start on our own again, **** the EU is my motto  >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(

LB
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DavieTait

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2007, 08:42:47 PM »

See they've had 300 people on this cruise with the squits and projectile vomit  :o :o :o

I'm not one for "Bad Karma" but didn't Charlie's missus HRHorse Camila name her and the bottle didn't break.......
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2007, 08:50:35 PM »

Quote
More to the point it is the EU which will not allow large vessels to built in the UK - it is not policy apparently.

That's a new one on me LB, where did you get that from? The QM2 was built in France but I understand that there was a UK bid which lost out on cost grounds. I'd have thought that the only influence that the EU could exercise would be to stop any UK Government subsidy. Surely they can't stop a purely commercial bid to build ships in the UK?
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2007, 10:40:13 PM »

Quote
More to the point it is the EU which will not allow large vessels to built in the UK - it is not policy apparently.

That's a new one on me LB, where did you get that from? The QM2 was built in France but I understand that there was a UK bid which lost out on cost grounds. I'd have thought that the only influence that the EU could exercise would be to stop any UK Government subsidy. Surely they can't stop a purely commercial bid to build ships in the UK?

That's certainly news to me and I've worked in the European cruise ship building industry for a number of years now.  As far as I am concerned we no longer have either the capacity or the expertise to build such vessels and the only reason the Italians are able to is because thier yards have been subsidised for a number of years now.  They have been trying to privatise them for some time but remain unable to attract an outside buyer.

Interestingly enough the French yard that built the QM2 has since closed.  The best European yards though remain the Finnish and the German, not surprisingly both countries put a great deal of emphasis on engineering and manufacturing and careers in those areas are encouraged as opposed to looked down on as they seem to be in the UK.

Our manufacturing industry in the UK is in the state it is as a result of lack of government support going back as far as the start of the Thatcher reign.  Since that time we haven't had a Labour government anyway and all industry has been made to fend for itself in a global market competing against cheap foreign labour and subsidised European industries. 

Since the start of Thatcherism no government has had the balls to increase taxes to generate the income required to be able to support public services and nationalised industries and we continue to pander to personal requirements of more money in our pockets at the expense of our manufacturing base.  We will soon be following the United States in thier slow economic decline and thier increasing inability to manufacture anything of thier own and are going to become increasingly dependant on the likes of China and India to manufacture all the worlds goods.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2008, 10:50:55 PM »

There is a photo in the February 2008 issue of Model Boats which demonstrates clearly that the QE2 has and hasn't got a sheer! The amidships section is flat but the bow and stern sections angle up from that which is in line with the published constructional information. There is no continuous curve as the exterior paint lines suggest, it's just a clever illusion. looks OK though!
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2008, 05:54:44 PM »

I know what you mean Colin and I'm sure that stood at the end of one of the inboard corridors the effect is fairly indistinguishable between a sheer and a simple upwards angle at the ends.
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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2008, 11:13:27 PM »

to be honest I actually think the QV is actually attractive.  they should have use the design for the QV on the QM2 :)

sorry guys!
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andygh

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2008, 11:49:18 PM »

QV looks fat and ungraceful to me  :-\, QEII always looks like it cuts through the water like a knife
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2008, 09:20:51 AM »

I think Bunkerbarge has explained why modern ships look they way they do. A quote from the Berlitz Cruising Guide:

"Will cruise ships ever look like ships again? No, simply because the economies of scale dictate that into the space provided must be squeezed as many bodies as possible - so square is better than round."

Bigger ships are also more economic as you get more internal volume for the external dimensions and of course the size of the non hotel services element of the crew, the officers, seamen and Bunkerbarges etc. remains relatively static.
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andygh

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2008, 12:15:25 PM »

Yes but knowing why she looks that way doesn't improve her looks  :(
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cos918

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2008, 05:13:09 PM »

yer and she don't sail well either. oh the joy of progress. Bring back concord and keep QE2 going . They made things right in the sixties.
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andygh

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2008, 05:23:13 PM »

Quote
They made things right in the sixties.

That's exactly what I keep telling my missus  :D
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The long Build

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2008, 06:13:51 PM »

I think Bunkerbarge has explained why modern ships look they way they do. A quote from the Berlitz Cruising Guide:"Will cruise ships ever look like ships again? No, simply because the economies of scale dictate that into the space provided must be squeezed as many bodies as possible - so square is better than round."

This is all well and good but if news gets around that it is not an enjoyable ship to cruise on, the number of rooms she has is irrelevant, as people will not book.  I imagine a lot of business would be repeat business then the designers have shot themselves in the foot.
If you buy a naff product, do you buy it again ?   ... Unlikely...same applies.

My opinion anyway..
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2008, 06:20:52 PM »

Actually I think that the QV is probably a very good ship indeed to cruise on if you prefer the bigger ships - but I mean cruise. The recent adverse comments about her seakeeping relate to the winter transatlantic crossing. It is doubtful if any modern cruise ship would have performed any better in the circumstances. You need a ship designed for the job such as the QE2 or QM2. I really do wonder why Cunard are touting her as a transatlantic ship when she is nothing of the sort.

QV looks better than most standard cruise ships because of her Cunard paint job although the cost of the increased air conditioning resulting from the black hull is probably reflected in the ticket price. They don't paint most cruise ships white just because it looks nice!
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cos918

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2008, 08:17:06 PM »

I think Bunkerbarge has explained why modern ships look they way they do. A quote from the Berlitz Cruising Guide:"Will cruise ships ever look like ships again? No, simply because the economies of scale dictate that into the space provided must be squeezed as many bodies as possible - so square is better than round."

This is all well and good but if news gets around that it is not an enjoyable ship to cruise on, the number of rooms she has is irrelevant, as people will not book.  I imagine a lot of business would be repeat business then the designers have shot themselves in the foot.
If you buy a naff product, do you buy it again ?   ... Unlikely...same applies.

My opinion anyway..


Well time will tell. As QE2 had a die hard loyal customer base that kept comming back to QE2. One lady i talked to said it was her 45 time on QE2 thats more than one visit a year. She all so said had been on QM2 once and was unsure and DID NOT evenly want to go on QV as the lady said she not a true Cunard ship. Theadore Scull said in one of his talks on QE2. When QE2 is gone IL have to find a ship, i like QM2 but i don't love her. And it these die hard passengers that Cunard are indanger of losing if they try and pass a cruse ship off as liner.

john
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2008, 08:27:15 PM »

Well, I would agree that Queen Victoria is primarily a marketing exercise as far as Cundard is concerned but that doesn't mean you won't have a good time - unless "Winter North Atlantic"!
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cos918

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2008, 08:46:19 PM »

or any choppy water.
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herrmill

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2008, 05:40:43 AM »

IMHO, they all now appear to look like nothing but condos built atop a car carrier hull. 

I, too, hate to see QE2 be replaced by these new designs, but alas, we don't own the lines.  Just like every liner before her, they're built for one thing: to make money for the company shareholders & not the maritime enthusiasts who bemoan the fact that cruise ships all look like a block of flats. 

Not to get on a new tangent, but whatever became of that fanciful idea from some dreamer to recreate a modern day Titanic?  I remember coming across a website back when the movie took the world a few years back?   I actually thought someone was smoking something then but never ran down what became of that hairbrained idea. 

Chuck
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