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Author Topic: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not  (Read 11901 times)

Colin Bishop

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2008, 08:52:03 AM »

Looks like it sunk without a trace!  ;)

Yes, I remember seeing something too but it was a while ago.
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KitS

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2008, 10:22:01 AM »

One big difference between QE2 and her succesors is, or was, the apparent height of her funnel.

As built she had this waaaaay tall sail of a very elegant funnel that towered over the ship, and which was subsequently shortened I think, but don't know why. The later ships, being quite a bit larger, but still having to fit under the Verrazano (sp?) Narrows Bridge, have similar height funnels overall, but they look squatter because the hull and superstructure is taller.

It's all a matter of comparison.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2008, 10:55:17 AM »

The QE2's funnel was modified when the ship was re engined from steam turbine to diesel electric in 1986/87. The new funnel is a slightly different design but I'm told it is the same height as the original.
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cos918

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2008, 06:23:03 PM »

hi Colin  yes it is the same height. They reused the side bits but put in a new middle section to take the 9 diesel exhausts. hence all the dents

john
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2008, 06:39:51 PM »

A couple of interesting points to follow up on here.  The first is that although I also feel the dissapointment of the loss of our enginering heritage of the 60's we have to move on.

Concorde, the E-Type Jag, the Triumph Bonneville and the QE2 were all years ahead of thier time as far as thier engineering goes but they were all designed in a time when fuel consumption wasn't an issue and emmissions were not even considered.  The QE2 uses fuel at a horrendous rate, even in her Diesel Electric configuration, as did the Concorde and the E-Type.

Are we not supposed to be thinking a bit more responsibly about these things nowadays?  Isn't it up to us to design machinery that uses fuel more efficiently and harms the environment considerably less and does less harm to the lagacy we leave our children etc..etc..?  The Queen Victoria is a world apart as regards fuel efficiency and environnmental impact and so she should be.  As for looks change is always a difficult one to get to grips with.  No-one liked the QE2 when she was shown to the world because she was too futuristic for a traditional liner.  Now every one seems to think she is beautiful. ::)

As for sailing on the Queen Victoria, I have a cruise booked on her in May and I have no doubt whatsoever that she will be a superb ship to cruise on and I will thoroughly enjoy it.

An interesting point about loyal followers needs putting into perspective a bit as well.  Passengers nowadays are getting more and more demanding as they know what is available and what they expect to pay for it.  The fuel for the QE2 continues to demand a high ticket price but just look at how she compares.  Sea water in the toilets as opposed to fresh water, sea water in the pools as opposed to fresh water, very few cabins with a balcony as opposed to the majority with a balcony, air conditioning that struggles to mantain temperatures as opposed to the latest in comfort control, traditional trans Atlantic hull giving a very fast passage but not the best in transverse stability as opposed to the latest in stabiliser technology.  The list goes on and on and the loyal passenger base who are prepared to continue to put up with these things for the sake of saying they have sailed on her is fast diminishing.

Then look at her from the owners point of view, fuel costs, maintenance costs soaring, totally inadequate thrusters requiring the use of tugs regularly, increasing costs involved with meeting the latest regulatory requirements.

Unfortunately love or hate her, and trust me, I love her to bits, but the QE2 has long since had her day.  I am so glad that she is being given the chance to retire gracefully and continue to demonstrate to the world what Britain was cabale of producing in those days but we now have to look to new ships in an ever changing and ever more demanding world.

By the way Colin I once saw the results of an air conditioning survey of an 83,000 ton cruise ship that stated the ship had an increased demand on it's domestic power requirements of 12% for purely having a dark hull.  That's a good few million in fuel a year!

The new funnel of the QE2 is actually pretty much the same height and the outside plate work was reused with an increased section of plates added to the width to give the new funnel.  It was quite simply required to accomodate nine engine exhausts as opposed to the three boilers originally fitted.

This link below is actually quite an interesting read, especially when you project fuel costs of that time into todays prices.  Fuel nowadays cost anywhere between $450-500.00 per ton.  Re-engining her equates to a saving today of $100-125,000.00 at 28 knots, per day!!

http://www.roblightbody.com/liners/qe-2/1987_Refit/index.htm
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cos918

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2008, 06:59:14 PM »

bunkerbarge as sad as it is you have hit the nail on the head. The only thing i would differ on is we got a far better and smother ride and it would have been even better if we had been doing 28 knots in stead of 19 to 20 knots that what QV got
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Colin Bishop

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2008, 07:11:15 PM »

Bunkerbarge is perfectly right in terms of the technology. Just imagine what it must have been like in the 1930's, travelling through the tropics on one of those lovely looking old P&O or Orient liners with no air conditioning. Pretty uncomfortable, particularly in the Red Sea. The term POSH (Port Out, Starboard Home) to keep the sun op the other side of the ship to your cabin wasn't coined for nothing!

While I appreciate all the points made in favour of the latest ships, I just do feel that a bit more effort could have been made with the external aesthetics if the bean counters had relaxed the purse strings a little. For some ships, "floating house brick" would be too kind a description although the paint job on the Cunarders does mitigate things a bit. QM2 would look a lot better if the funnel was in proportion to the rest of the ship, but then they wouldn't have been able to dock it in New York.
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2008, 07:13:01 PM »

bunkerbarge as sad as it is you have hit the nail on the head. The only thing i would differ on is we got a far better and smother ride and it would have been even better if we had been doing 28 knots in stead of 19 to 20 knots that what QV got



All depends of course on sea conditions, wind direction, and speed at the time.  The Queen Vic, as Colin quite rightly says, is not a liner so she shouldn't really be put onto a liner run but I suspect that the publicity factor of having the three queens together was too much of an opportunity to miss.

Hopefull they will be a bit more realistic in her scheduling in future.  I have also, of course, been on the QE2 and enjoyed some pretty fresh weather.  She was going through it superbly but rocking from side to side quite a bit.
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2008, 07:16:23 PM »

Bunkerbarge is perfectly right in terms of the technology. Just imagine what it must have been like in the 1930's, travelling through the tropics on one of those lovely looking old P&O or Orient liners with no air conditioning. Pretty uncomfortable, particularly in the Red Sea. The term POSH (Port Out, Starboard Home) to keep the sun op the other side of the ship to your cabin wasn't coined for nothing!

While I appreciate all the points made in favour of the latest ships, I just do feel that a bit more effort could have been made with the external aesthetics if the bean counters had relaxed the purse strings a little. For some ships, "floating house brick" would be too kind a description although the paint job on the Cunarders does mitigate things a bit. QM2 would look a lot better if the funnel was in proportion to the rest of the ship, but then they wouldn't have been able to dock it in New York.

Unfortunately a lot of the "brick' shape is dictated by the fact that nowadays everyone wants a balcony and ships that don't have enough loose out to those that can supply them.  This is such a demand nowadays that such ships as the Explorer Class from RCI have internal balconies that overlook the shopping arcade just to maximise the cabin arrangements.
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andygh

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2008, 09:12:11 PM »

Quote
Concorde, the E-Type Jag, the Triumph Bonneville and the QE2 were all years ahead of thier time as far as thier engineering goes but they were all designed in a time when fuel consumption wasn't an issue and emmissions were not even considered.  The QE2 uses fuel at a horrendous rate, even in her Diesel Electric configuration, as did the Concorde and the E-Type.

All perfectly correct, apart from the Bonnie :'(
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KitS

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #60 on: February 17, 2008, 09:43:19 PM »

Concorde, the E-Type Jag, the Triumph Bonneville and the QE2 were all years ahead of thier time as far as thier engineering goes but they were all designed in a time when fuel consumption wasn't an issue and emmissions were not even considered.  

And you can add the Advanced Passenger Train to that list as well.

The original APT-E used gas turbines that used more fuel at idle than it did at 120 mph! The '70s fuel crisis knocked the turbine power idea right on the head (not to mention the non-availability of a sensible rated turbine...) which resulted, after a LONG time, in the 25kV electric APT-P. By then the market had moved on and cheap airline flights were almost upon us.

Re the QE2's funnel, thanks for posting the reason for the modification, at last I know why they did it.

I still think it looks more elegant than the QM's or the QV's though  :)
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andygh

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2008, 09:58:05 PM »

I can clearly recall watching the APT whizzing along the the track at the bottom of my school playing fields as I sat in the classroom struggling with my french lessons, circa 1975
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cos918

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2008, 10:31:09 PM »

Concorde, the E-Type Jag, the Triumph Bonneville and the QE2 were all years ahead of thier time as far as thier engineering goes but they were all designed in a time when fuel consumption wasn't an issue and emmissions were not even considered. 

And you can add the Advanced Passenger Train to that list as well.

The original APT-E used gas turbines that used more fuel at idle than it did at 120 mph! The '70s fuel crisis knocked the turbine power idea right on the head (not to mention the non-availability of a sensible rated turbine...) which resulted, after a LONG time, in the 25kV electric APT-P. By then the market had moved on and cheap airline flights were almost upon us.

Re the QE2's funnel, thanks for posting the reason for the modification, at last I know why they did it.

I still think it looks more elegant than the QM's or the QV's though  :)

for QM2 to get her funnel to look right they reckon it needs to be all most twice the height as it is now. Since she as only 4 foot i think clearnce between the bottom of the bridge over new york bay and the top of her funnel they could not make it look wright hence the squate look.

john
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KitS

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #63 on: February 18, 2008, 07:31:55 AM »

Andy,

I can clearly recall watching the APT whizzing along the the track at the bottom of my school playing fields as I sat in the classroom struggling with my french lessons, circa 1975

That means you were at school either in the Notts-Leics area, or possibly somewhere along the Midland Main Line to London. An outside chance would put you in Berks or Wilts in the Summer of '75. In any of those cases there was an extremely good chance that I was on board as the APT-E hardly went anywhere without me!  :)
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andygh

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #64 on: February 18, 2008, 04:47:56 PM »

I was at school in Wigston, just south of Leicester. I have a feeling that watching those trains was a big influence in starting my modelling career, railway models at first obviously
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Bryan Young

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #65 on: February 18, 2008, 07:23:36 PM »

Concorde, the E-Type Jag, the Triumph Bonneville and the QE2 were all years ahead of thier time as far as thier engineering goes but they were all designed in a time when fuel consumption wasn't an issue and emmissions were not even considered.  

And you can add the Advanced Passenger Train to that list as well.

The original APT-E used gas turbines that used more fuel at idle than it did at 120 mph! The '70s fuel crisis knocked the turbine power idea right on the head (not to mention the non-availability of a sensible rated turbine...) which resulted, after a LONG time, in the 25kV electric APT-P. By then the market had moved on and cheap airline flights were almost upon us.

Re the QE2's funnel, thanks for posting the reason for the modification, at last I know why they did it.

I still think it looks more elegant than the QM's or the QV's though  :)
Surprised no-one has mentioned the TSR2.
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KitS

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #66 on: February 18, 2008, 10:40:58 PM »

Andy,

Cor Wigston Junction!  :)

That was one of our test case curves for the 1 hr London-Leicester tests. I spent quite some time out there trying to work out why our intstrumentation on the track didn't work. Turned out some rodents had found the cables to be rather tasty and had bitten large chunks out of them!

Bryan,

I agree about the TSR2 being ahead of its time, but it was shot down by damn silly politicians rather than the fuel crisis. It could probably even be seen as more economical than it's heavyweight compatriot, the Vulcan, as it only had half the number of engines.  :)

Yes, OK, so they were afterburning Olynpuses (Olympii?) rather than the Vulcans 301s but a similar core engine.
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Peter Fitness

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #67 on: February 19, 2008, 10:53:45 AM »



I'll let you know how she rides on 18th April when we dock in Southampton after 53 days on board, we leave Sydney on 25th February. Cunard are promoting the "Royal Rendezvous" in Sydney quite strongly, as the QE2 and QV pass each other on Sunday 24th February in Sydney Harbour. Huge traffic jams are expected as Sydneysiders flock to vantage points to witness the occasion.
Peter.
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cos918

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #68 on: February 22, 2008, 11:51:02 PM »

hi peter . as i have just been on her i am sure you will have a great time. I wish i could do the panama canal section.  O0    Watch out for the book shop to many nice and must souvenirs in there i could have spent thousands in there mmm ;D.

john
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Peter Fitness

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2008, 12:02:59 AM »

Hi John,

Glad to hear you enjoyed your time on QE2, we are really looking forward to it, and we don't have long to wait as she arrives in Sydney tomorrow morning (Sunday 24th) our time. The Panama Canal should be great, and I believe the transit is in daylight too.

The Queen Victoria arrived this morning and was all over the early TV news. I must say that from the outside she looks as if she is built from Lego blocks, but the shots we saw of the interior look absolutely magnificent. We are going to try and see them both tomorrow, but I think half of Sydney will be doing the same thing, so it could be interesting.

Which voyage did you do?

Peter.
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cos918

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2008, 12:11:10 AM »

southampton to New york in tandem with QV and she was about 300m at most of our side all the way and then meet QM2 in new york.
Recommend the spa $15 a day but worth it. Qv is lovely on the inside but not so nice on the out side. Hope full will be down near southampton to see QE2 arrive if i am there i will wave.   all the best. bon voyage!  O0

john
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Peter Fitness

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2008, 12:15:23 AM »

I'll keep an eye out for you, John. You'll be able to spot me easily, I'll be the one on deck waving with an Aussie accent  {-) {-).
Peter.
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cos918

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2008, 12:18:21 AM »

well have fun and bring that decent aussie weather SUN
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Peter Fitness

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2008, 12:24:25 AM »

I'll pack some sunshine in our bags, but I was relying on the locals to provide lots of it ;)
Peter.
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Peter Fitness

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Re: The New Queen Victoria - Have they made a mess or not
« Reply #74 on: February 24, 2008, 06:00:33 AM »

We went into the city (Sydney) today to see the QV at the Overseas Passenger Terminal, Circular Quay, along with a large proportion of Sydney's residents. Attached are a couple of shots taken from near the Opera House on a beautiful sunny day. While we were there, the Sun Princess passed under the Sydney Harbour Bridge, on her way to her berth at Wharf 8. The QE2 was there as well, but not visible, apart from the top of her funnel. The QV leaves this evening at 6.30pm, passing the QE2 which takes QV's place at the OPT. We are boarding QE2 tomorrow at 2.30pm.
I think the QV looks better "in the flesh (steel)" than it does in photos.
Peter.
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