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Author Topic: Fairmile D WW11  (Read 7386 times)

Dave Buckingham

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Fairmile D WW11
« on: December 01, 2007, 08:42:26 PM »

Hi Folk
Sorry the old question colours for the Fairmile D Late WW11 northern and southern Europe .I have seen many colours no two agree.

First I need the side and deck colours in Humbrol or White Ensign

I have seen fancy paintwork look good e g 1/3 torpedo tubes dark rest light.

What is the white line under the deck on some.

Lambert said in the Fairmile D book G45 and B 15 but some people say they are wrong to dark

There are blue and karky(SP) in some paints

Help please Dave
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Jonty

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2007, 09:29:21 PM »

  The references I have indicate that John Lambert is correct - as one would expect. He is backed up by Alan Raven. The basic colour scheme is overall grey G45 with blue B15 decks and white countershading. This white was applied to the bow area below the spray rail, below the torpedo tubes, and any other areas likely to be in shadow.

  The Dark Modification scheme had a central B15 panel on the hull sides, and the Light Modification a G45 panel on an otherwise all-white hull.
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Jonty

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2007, 10:07:56 PM »

  Should have said that White Ensign do these colours. It's worth mentioning, however, that there is a scale effect in colour. So, whilst you get a correct result using the paints as supplied, you will get a more authentic model by lightening the colours slightly.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2007, 10:29:37 PM »

Just a point which I'm sure a lot of you know. The black and white film emulsions in WW2 period (and before) can frequently give a false impression of relative colours so don't rely on the apparent shades from photographs without independent verification.
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Jonty

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2007, 11:15:13 PM »

  And there was even one kind of film - Orthochrome? - which rendered yellow as a dark tone, almost black. Made RAF WW2 fuselage roundels look very odd.
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I eat my peas with honey,
I've done it all my life;
It makes the peas taste funny,
But it keeps 'em on the knife.

Dave Buckingham

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2007, 06:33:13 AM »

Thanks Jonty and Colin
When built the model will be well weathered and used so faded paint and dirt will be the order of the day.

I am well used to faded paint after 35 years at sea but commercial not grey funnel line.

It is interesting looking at the various colours people have painted there boats.

Weathering will be done by a friend but as this is a wooden boat and well washed by the sea salt should be interesting.
The only rust/dirt lines on most photos apart from the exhaust is down by the stanchions.
Dave
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Admhawk

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2007, 03:16:33 PM »

Hello,

John Lambert and Alan Raven are correct with the colours G45, B15 and white. Alans patterns are also generally correct.

However, as with anything that is 60+ years old, there will be variations and discrepancies that may not be known to all.

The WEM paints are very good and mostly correct, but there are some sources that show slight differences. Again, not surprising since the standards spanned years and countries in the throws of war.

The photo below shows some Fairmile D's at a Jetty in England, late war. For those that wish to discount colour footage, go ahead, but the colours I see are close enough to the samples below the pic that I take them for correct enough for me.

The boats show a light design near the jetty, with a dark one next and another light one. The dark design varies slightly from Ravens book with the additions of a band of B15 at the bow.


The shadows make the G45 show up as a couple of different shades and the decks have some glare, but are definately B15 on the left 2.

The following images are photos I took in Ottawa at the Defence History Directorate. It is a colour chip book from 1945. I photographed it on top of the Snyder and Short paint chips used by WEM to mix their paints. Raven and Snyder combined thier research to come up with these colours. The lighting and camera image isn't great, but it compares reasonably well when examined beside the S&S cards.


The G45 from the 1945 card is much bluer and compares favourably to the G45 in the previous pic. G45 is the side panel on the hull that starts at the top and goes back, getting wider. It is also the colour of the superstructure.


B15 is the colour of the decks, torpedo scallops and the bit on the bow of the second boat.

So I present these for your reference to do with as you wish. Good luck!!

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Dave Buckingham

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2007, 07:49:13 PM »

Hi Darren
WOW good picture of colours and deck any more available please.

The decks are different in each picture and the blue is more blue than some of the colour charts

Many thanks it all helps
Dave
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Admhawk

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2007, 08:19:17 PM »

That's all I have in colour on the D's..

The 2 dark blue decks would be different probably because they were painted at different times and are showing age/fading. The light deck has a brown area which I take to be a non skid coating, with G45 ahead of it.
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Dave Buckingham

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2007, 10:33:14 PM »

Hi Darren
Pity best picture for detail I have seen.

Brown on the rigt boat looks to be wear and tear dont ask why brown unless mud from quay.

Second boat deck looks newly painted look at the reflections

Third a bit older and the last like the first

Interesting G45 on deck
Thanks again Dave
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Admhawk

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2007, 11:49:25 PM »

Actually, having a closer look, it does look like where muddy water has pooled and dried. Very much like standing water I've seen elsewhere. And the water it's in does look quite brown.
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cisco1

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2008, 10:30:36 AM »

i want to have these paints made up into aerosols at halfords but i will need a ral or bs number etc for them to make them up do you know what they are  also what colour are these boats under water red or black if so also will need that number thanks
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Shipmate60

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2008, 11:18:39 AM »

One of the problems with ships colour schemes is their the paint only retains its original colour for a very short period of time, so is only accurate for when she comes out of refit.
As soon as the sun and seawater attack the paint it changes the colour.
This is of course made worse on weathered models where they would need a repaint.
Some of the Admiralty colours were made up on the ship by the bosun and were very precise eg 37:19:8:6:3:1 where this is the ratio of the primary colours.
During Wartime and the deficiencies which abounded I know almost every ship was painted a different colour.
My Late Great Uncle was on the Russian Convoys and he remembered quite clearly that each escort was a different colour.

Bob
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Admhawk

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2008, 05:14:56 PM »

Quite right Bob, I've also heard stories about Ships leaving Halifax for the West or south runs and dumping the locally made paints overboard because they were so bad they peeled within days. They would restock with close equivalents at US or UK ports.

My 'guess' for the undersides would be white carried down from the sides. Small boats like this generally didn't have the red lead applied. I suspect you might find black occasionally. The type G's definately had white bottoms.

As for numbers, there aren't modern matches. You will have to get Snyder and Short paint cards or White Ensign tins for closest matches.
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Tom@Crewe

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2008, 07:58:41 PM »

which scheme for this period are you thinking of any pictures?

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Tom@Crewe

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2008, 08:11:12 PM »

And how to paint them.....
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Tom@Crewe

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Re: Fairmile D WW11
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2008, 08:16:30 PM »

I have seen the Admiralty chips for these colours (and you can see them too if you want (in London @ the P.R.O.))

I found G45 to be between Humbrol 23 & 65 (or a equal mix of the two) and B15 to be between 96 and 109 (or a equal mix of the two)
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