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Author Topic: State of the Navy  (Read 11632 times)

Colin H

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2007, 05:01:45 pm »

I hate to be the one to point this out but in flight refueling has been in the news quite a lot lately and once again it points to the lack of investment in our armed forces.

My sympathies to all the families.

Steve people readily quote the Swiss model but forget how their reserves operate. Every person who's serves in the Swiss army and there is conscription of a sort so that is most of the population brings their service rifle and a quantity of ammo home.

Therefore most homes in that country have at least one selective fire full bore rifle along with ammo stashed in a cupboard somewhere.

We in this country are judged by our government not capable of owning any semi auto weapon never mind selective fire.

This in my opinion makes quoting the Swiss model untenable unless of course you advocate arming our populace.

Yours Colin H.
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gingyer

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2007, 05:29:05 pm »

with Reference to in-flight refueling

We have less real tankers that at the time of the Falklands
the reason I say real is the VC10's and Tri-Stars are being
replaced due to their age....BUT
the aircraft to replace these are airbus A330's
very good aircraft. Our wise politicians are getting these on PFI
same as HMS Tyne and sisters then the major catch the aircraft are being then
rented out to budjet airlines for them to use then if the RAF need them they will be recalled
 and fitted with temporary fuel tanks in place of the seating or the seating would just be left
in place and they would carry extra personnel and cargo.
the fact is on paper we have the same but in reality they may not even be in the
same continent as they are needed or in our hands
Colin
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Colin Bishop

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2008, 07:58:32 pm »

Report in todays paper that the new carriers may be "delayed" due to budgetary problems. Thus, the Navy, having agreed to scrap half its surface fleet in exchange for them, now finds that the money will be siphoned off elsewhere.

Truly the Government are either fools or knaves - most likely both.
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Bryan Young

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2008, 05:37:32 pm »

Report in todays paper that the new carriers may be "delayed" due to budgetary problems. Thus, the Navy, having agreed to scrap half its surface fleet in exchange for them, now finds that the money will be siphoned off elsewhere.

Truly the Government are either fools or knaves - most likely both.
Look at my (much) earlier posts and forgive me for saying "I told you so"....the Navy was duped by the politically motivated MOD. Perhaps they should have known better. The Army and the RAF haven't fared too well either at the hands of the political muppets "we" have elected. I still believe that the aim of the present "establishment" is the destruction of England .... and so far they are doing a good job. Thank goodness I shall not be around to see the eventual totally "socialist" state that beckons. Wearily yours,BY.
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gingyer

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2008, 06:00:55 pm »

the aim of the present "establishment" is the destruction of England ....

Bryan there is more than one country affected by the way the government is systematically destroying
the armed forces. In Scotland alone they destroyed the old regiments of the army and turned them into a
super regiment (WHAT A  >>:-( )

Colin
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Bryan Young

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2008, 09:55:46 pm »

the aim of the present "establishment" is the destruction of England ....

Bryan there is more than one country affected by the way the government is systematically destroying
the armed forces. In Scotland alone they destroyed the old regiments of the army and turned them into a
super regiment (WHAT A  >>:-( )

Colin
Sorry. You are correct. But I am English and you lot north of the wall are perfectly capable of looking after  yourselves. BY.
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gingyer

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2008, 10:12:15 pm »

that right bryan we are caplable of looking after ourselves and even
those accross the border from time to time {-) O0

Colin
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banjo

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2008, 10:12:48 pm »

Entered in haste and error
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john strapp

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2008, 10:55:08 pm »

Mr Young,  do you not realise that this is the United Kingdom thats involved, and not just the English. I am reminded of a council border  sign that says "you are now entering a nuclear free zone".
we are alll in this together.

And what about our merchant navy, nobody cried so much when it was decimated.
In 1914 Great Britain  (and the English) owned 41% of the worlds tonnage and in 1950 it had dropped tp 23%, I'd be interested to know what percentage it is at now
 Cast thou a tear
JS
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
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john strapp

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2008, 09:07:18 am »

Mr Young,
After yesterday's football result, Newcastle United might be better off looking for a manager who is not ENGLISH.
Four OO - 4-0  4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 :) :) :) :) :)
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farrow

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2008, 12:06:42 pm »

I hear all your arguments , but the most sensible question so far is do we need large expensive offensive units and the answer is quite rightly NO for obvious reasons.
I hear on the naval grapevine that the mine hunters will soon be history due to cuts, well one mine in a channel and all ports will be closed, a cheap but very effective weapon the mine, probably took out more vessels than any other weapon and still doing so today.
This country relies on imports, we have virtually no merchant navy left, but a dozen small auxiliary carriers like in the last war is more useful than large destroyers with one small helicopter, which cannot leave a convoy and probably not keep up with a convoy of container vessels in mid ocean. Where as a aircraft patrols a large area with anti submarine helicopters will do more damage, than a type 45 can. Also the type 45's with the proposed new large carriers are to prohibitive in cost to risk in convoy duties. Look to the last two wars and you will see this is the area that the real major war of importance was carried out. Offensive warfare can only take place after the defensive is won.
Better still as Churchill once said talk talk was better than shoot shoot, so basically we need good politicians to keep us out of scrapes, cheaper all round. The yanks are now feeling the pinch, but there economy and defence budget makes ours look like a child's pocket money.
Yes we could save money and redirect to the coal face, but that is politically impossible. You would upset too many senior officers in nice comfortable billets, check to see how many there are above Lt Comdr in the RN and what they do, same applies to the other services and check on the bull which is called traditional practices.
As for Invincible, she was laid up early because of her poor condition and was not suitable for saling on.
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sweeper

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2008, 12:40:10 pm »

Some very valid points have been raised in this thread.
Rmasmaster is on the ball with the summation that the mine is the prime (i.e. the cheapest and most effective method) of cutting the Country off. And what did our Lords and Masters do? Scrap a competent branch of the service. Having been, in the past, involved with this aspect of warfare, it makes me sick to think of the possible conseqences of their actions.

To Mr.J. Strapp, Newcastle have had non-english managers in the past, and a fat lot of good they did. And yesterdays result was 6-0 (just for the record).

Bryan Young pointed out that" the lot over the wall" could look after themselves. In his defence, there is an old expression "The English didn't want us, the Scots wouldn't have us, so we're a race apart". Who? Geordies of course.
Tongue very firmly in cheek.

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John W E

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2008, 05:17:50 pm »

Sweeper, you forgot to mention .... theGeordies may be a race apart; but the best ships in the world were built on the River Tyne by Geordies, Parson (a Geordie) gave everyone the turbine - also the first house with Electric lighting was in Geordieland and the first 'unsinkable' lifeboat by William Wouldhave ...... the list is endless

and remember Mackems and Durhamites are not Geordies.....

aye
john e
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Brian_C

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2008, 05:45:37 pm »

 HERE HERE BLUEBIRD,  dont forget   GEORGE STEPHENSON,, WILLIAM HEDLY "puffing billy" SIR CHARLES PARSONS,, GEORGE WASHINGTON,, ADMIRAL LORD COLLINGWOOD,, LORD ARMSTRONG "vickers"  BOBBY AND JACKIE CHARLTON,, STING,, MARK KNOPFLER,, ALAN SHEARER,, BRYAN ROBSON,, NEWCASTLE BROON ALE,, PAUL GASGOINE " HIC"   :o :D {-) {-) {-) O0
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Bryan Young

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2008, 10:52:38 pm »

Mr Young,  do you not realise that this is the United Kingdom thats involved, and not just the English. I am reminded of a council border  sign that says "you are now entering a nuclear free zone".
we are alll in this together.

And what about our merchant navy, nobody cried so much when it was decimated.
In 1914 Great Britain  (and the English) owned 41% of the worlds tonnage and in 1950 it had dropped tp 23%, I'd be interested to know what percentage it is at now
 Cast thou a tear
JS
Why don't you just call me Bryan and I will call you Sandy?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
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john strapp

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2008, 11:30:11 pm »

Swan Hunters was so good their last ship had to be completed where ?
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John W E

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2008, 10:15:24 am »

Mr Strapp - we had to send the ship there to show them how the ships were built - plus the fact that the guy who took over Swans (as in shipbuilders)  :D turned out to be a bit of an undesirable character oh no, not another one   {-) {-) {-)

aye
john e
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sweeper

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2008, 11:52:58 am »

Ehhhhhhhh John E,

I think I can recite a few of the engineering achievements of the area. I started my life about a mile from Swans front gate, later worked in one of the large engineering works on the river before moving on into another industry.
To your list you could add Reyrolle (switchgear and transformers - Hebburn), Swan (electric light - Gateshead but had his lab in what is now Carliol House Newcastle)
My comments were not made to run Geordies down in anyway. I concur with your statement about the makems et al.

As you would put it "aye"
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John W E

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2008, 03:46:51 pm »

Sweeper, just for curiosity of course.....are you still living local as in North East of England .... or have you hopped owa some warls? to try and educate and civilise the Natives??  :D :D :D {-) {-) O0

I know there are one or two missionaries throughout our land (MikeK being a senior missionary) :D  preaching the good owld Geordie wisdom and the words of the Geordie gospel.....thou shalt drink broon ale on a Saturda neet and wear a flat cap  :o :o

aye
john e
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sweeper

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2008, 05:23:15 pm »

Aye man, still in the North East. Escaped for a couple of years to educate some people in far away foreign parts, but came back to see the bridges.
Never touched the broon having seen as an apprentice what it can do to mere mortals, but am prone to wearing a flat cap at times.
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taxi

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2008, 06:55:10 pm »

One thing for sure, if the navy is ever built up it will mean     MORE TAX.      Here's a pic from the 1957 home fleet review @ Invergordon [a one time refuelling depot in the Cromarty firth pre nato days].       I think the carrier from which the photo was taken was the Ark Royal.i
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john strapp

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2008, 08:24:13 pm »

Aye Bluebird,
Broon ale's like mothers' milk,  but we make McEwans, a six pack of which sends some people raving lunatics, if you know what I mean!
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Arrow5

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2008, 09:14:45 pm »

  Invergordon;  "...a one time refuelling depot in the Cromarty Firth"   shoorly shum mishtake ? :o
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taxi

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2008, 10:54:16 pm »

There was two tank farms, one I believe was hacked into hillside and had a pumping station which is either a restaurant / house beside A9 at road junction and the other was very visible behind the town.   The Gerries even managed to drop a bomb on one of the tanks.
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Arrow5

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Re: State of the Navy
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2008, 11:03:39 pm »

Correct but it has a much more illustrious history than just a mere bunkering port. Even the most famous, if not the only major, mutiny in the Royal Navy in 1931. It was a major player in both World Wars and prior to those conflicts. It was also a flying boat base. Now a main port of call for the largest cruise liners, about 30 per year.
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