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Author Topic: conversion  (Read 3296 times)

botchit

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conversion
« on: December 11, 2007, 03:01:41 AM »

Me again i never learn. I've just aquired a broken aeroplane and was wondering if it is possible to make a variation of a passenger hovercraft or type of hydrofoil that they use in swamps, using both  motors and the electrics in it. The motors face to the tail not the nose of the plane.If not does everything including the hand set have to be changed.
Regards and Merry XMAS to all.  Botchit :-\
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catengineman

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Re: conversion
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2007, 03:40:50 AM »

Being an engineer I look at every thing as being possible, and what you have said is that you have two prop units that push the air flow rather than pull it, so in a word yes you could construct an air boat, hovercraft, or another plane.

Now the tech bit........

The radio system frequency is what?
27 meg for land sea air (I think)
40 meg land sea
35 meg air only (again I think)   

R,
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tigertiger

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Re: conversion
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2007, 06:07:31 AM »

There is a thread on airbaots on this forum and I have seen it on other forums as well.

It can be done. It has been done.

Good luck and enjoy.
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RipSlider

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Re: conversion
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2007, 07:08:25 AM »

Should be do-able, but remember you'll need to change to a pusher prop, as, unless the old plane is a pusher model, it won't work very well otherwise.

Steve
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botchit

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Re: conversion
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2007, 09:49:22 PM »

gents
                    Ive been informed by the donor of the plane it is air only.It is a pusher set up i,m hoping to just section the wings and transfer.So are my thoughts of using the planes inner   electrics (except the battery)  now out the window leaving me well and truly back to the drawing board regarding mainly steerage.
Regards Yet again Botchit
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catengineman

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Re: conversion
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2007, 10:46:39 PM »

Hi botchit,

You say that the "plane" is a pusher type so there is half your requirements in hand.

As for the rest of the plane's inners the ONLY BIT that is not much use to a ground craft will be the RECIEVER and the TRANSMITER as they will be of the wrong frequency.

any servos and power packs will be usable and a new rec (40 meg) with matching trany will give you the controls.

Hope this brightens your mood and spurs you on with ideas

R,
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BarryM

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Re: conversion
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2007, 08:41:49 AM »

Just to confuse matters - if Botchit converts the wreckage to an ekranoplane or WIG (wing in ground effect) craft, does he need 35MHz or 40MHz?

Barry M
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tigertiger

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Re: conversion
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2007, 10:06:22 AM »

Just to confuse matters - if Botchit converts the wreckage to an ekranoplane or WIG (wing in ground effect) craft, does he need 35MHz or 40MHz?

27Mhz? ???
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BarryM

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Re: conversion
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2007, 10:17:02 AM »

Just to confuse matters - if Botchit converts the wreckage to an ekranoplane or WIG (wing in ground effect) craft, does he need 35MHz or 40MHz?

27Mhz? ???

Are you a politician by any chance?  ;)
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Roger in France

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Re: conversion
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2007, 12:02:08 PM »

The debate continues about which category a WIG falls into. In my view it is more akin to aviation than land or marine. But who am I to say? In the end it may just have to be an arbitrary decision.

One thing that may prompt a decision is if someone operating an expensive RC item can show that he experienced a crash from interference caused by a WIG being operated on the "wrong" frequency and then sues. The Courts may be called upon to decide which category a WIG falls into. However, establishing "fault" would not be easy.

I cannot think of any legislation or Government agency which has the power to decide.

Roger in France.
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bigH

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Re: conversion
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2007, 01:35:53 PM »

  Hi Roger -I-F   Over here we have quangos of unelected bodies for everything,  these bodies would like to control and present laws for EVERYTHING.   If you can present a problem on it, they can rule on it and if they can't then some s**t for brains MP will...
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Circlip

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Re: conversion
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2007, 03:23:06 PM »

Botchit, try to have a look at a picture of Vic Smeeds' SCUDDER. An airscrew driven PUSHER hydroplane.Was a Futuristic design for a passenger carrying hydro, well it was in the 50's when it was designed. 24" long 15" beam, twin sponsons balsa construction, could be styrene/plasticard, original had 3.5cc single airscrew drive but if you see the design you could probably graft on your two prop units a la Thunderbolt/Warthog aircraft. This was described in MODEL MAKER back in the 50's of which I used to have a copy but gave an 18""stack to a mates son who was far more into boats than i was at the time. Picture/plan could be in what used to be APS plans service, WHO are they STAV? When Vic left MM I think there was some sort of rift and he published his own plans for some time, but I think this one was still part of the APS archives. Plan is MM/311 and could be in X range.
       Good luck.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: conversion
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2007, 05:31:28 PM »

If the donor model was one of the RTF toys, the radio could be anything.  Best to look at any labelling on the transmitter.  The only nono channel is 35Meg.
I would guess that if you dont have to look up at it when its going, its not a plane, so surface frequencies are required.
On the other hand, if you do a Sunderland or Catalina that can only taxi.........
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john54

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Re: conversion
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2007, 05:41:48 PM »

I might be wrong but i think those hydro/boat/plane things on e*ay are on 35mz (sure my bros was)
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catengineman

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Re: conversion
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2007, 10:50:09 PM »

Ok so lets push the boat out here (oops) so an aircraft is 35meg land / sea are 27 / 40 meg so what is ?


Yup you got it in one a HOVERCRAFT? ie: land sea and air after all they have pilots not captains?

and a build with pusher props which has the tech to leave the "ground" could be classed as ??????

Just to make this clear in my small mind.

R,
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botchit

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Re: conversion
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2007, 11:52:38 AM »

Well i certainly have some food for thought now. Ill lyou know what eventually happens either the fastest crash dive in history, or a new version of a marine chitty chitty bang bang . Personally methinks  most prob **itty **itty glug glug . So onwards and upwards ???? :).
Festive Fun to all.
Botchit
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catengineman

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Re: conversion
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2007, 07:53:01 PM »

If you go upwards botchit then the 27 meg is ok {-)

If you do build the marine version of said **itty **itty glug glug I hope you will post build pictures O0

All the best in your decision
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justboatonic

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Re: conversion
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2007, 09:22:52 PM »

Just to confuse matters - if Botchit converts the wreckage to an ekranoplane or WIG (wing in ground effect) craft, does he need 35MHz or 40MHz?

Barry M

Its 27 or 40Mhz. Its not a plane in the accepted sense even if it does 'fly' above the water or land. You should never use 35Mhz for a surface model.

You wouldnt use 40Mhz for a helicopter if all it does is hover a foot or so off the ground.
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justboatonic

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Re: conversion
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2007, 11:03:53 AM »

I might be wrong but i think those hydro/boat/plane things on e*ay are on 35mz (sure my bros was)

These shouldnt be on 35 Mhz. They should be on 27 or 40Mhz. One national model shop chain used to sell Tamiya cars on 35Mhz but we managed to get that stopped after discussions. Fleabay is rife with people who dont know what frequencies should be used for proper flying models ie gliders, planes and helis.

Anything else should be on 27 or 40Mhz.
The debate continues about which category a WIG falls into. In my view it is more akin to aviation than land or marine. But who am I to say? In the end it may just have to be an arbitrary decision.

One thing that may prompt a decision is if someone operating an expensive RC item can show that he experienced a crash from interference caused by a WIG being operated on the "wrong" frequency and then sues. The Courts may be called upon to decide which category a WIG falls into. However, establishing "fault" would not be easy.

I cannot think of any legislation or Government agency which has the power to decide.

Roger in France.
This is very dangerous assumption Roger and it should never be left as an arbitrary decision.

There is a Government dept (Radio Regulatory Office or something) within the Home Office that determines which RC frequencies should be used and for different model types, aided by organisation such as BMFA, the Large Model Association, British Radio Car Association.

The regulations specifically lay down that 35Mhz is for flying models while 27 & 40 Mhz are for surface models. 27Mhz is still legal for flight but is not recommended.

If I remember correctly, 472Mhz was also legal for flying before 35Mhz but Im not sure if these frequencies are still in use. 2.4Ghz is also available but these sets dont use crystals in the accepted sense and are supposed to be foolproof at preventing interference.
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Circlip

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Re: conversion
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2007, 01:56:06 PM »

Nearly there Justboatonic. 458Megs - UHF  Yes it still applies, its just that we're "spoiled" with 35 & 40 to play with. Without wanting to reopen deep wounds, at the time of the great CBwars the SMAE and the MHTF fought VIGAROUSLY for the allocation of a SAFE frequency for model aircraft away from the CB brigade who by weight of numbers flooded the market with 27meg sets. while it was INCONVENIENT for the land/water brigade to loose control, it was downright DANGEROUS for us fly boys at the time. It wasn't helped by the fact that the toy brigade HAD to have A Licence (1 for 5 years) and the CBer's just phisically moved around cos they couldn't be legalised on 27megs AM - Model control frequency. After the allocation of 35MHZ to the aircraft side of the hobby,relationships became strained in certain areas due to the PERCEIVED threat to surface control by the CB lobby and was not helped by the attitude of SOME "Modellers" to buy 35MHZ gear and use it for surface control, to make sure they didn't suffer interference. Other members of this forum are quite aware of MY feelings on the "correctness" of certain things, but this is one subject i will ALWAYS go into a flamer on. I know of 3 fatalities due to R/C aero accidents and numerous near misses, Can't remember any model car or boat ones though. Not wanting to shake the barrel Martin but lots of Newbies are unaware of the LUXURY they now enjoy due to some of our HARD GRAFT in the past. Two Ramiprils and one Atenolol.   
      Luv an kisses to ALL,Ian
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sheerline

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Re: conversion
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2007, 05:38:31 PM »

Reading this thread with some interest. I have had this discussion re the aircraft/Ekranoplan/ boat dispute many times and I think if anyone is in any doubt, common sense should prevail. Firstly, what is an aircraft in the established sense of the word... it is a construction/machine capable of flight and three dimensional movement ie two horizontal movements and one vertical movement. This ensures it is in a different category to all other craft as it is not tied or limited to surface movement. The bottom line is 'what goes up, must come down' and in the latter case can kill someone... not so in the case of surface skimmers or boats. It is for this reason aircraft occupy a specific frequency which should remain free of all other interpretations.
When aeromodellers want to go flying, they will always seek out their like minded collegues to ensure they are A: not going to destroy their aeroplane and B: not going to lose control through interference and injure someone.
In the case of surface skimmers, although they do rise in the air medium, they are constrained to operating on a cushion of air or 'ground effect' and are therefore not true aircraft. The design of these machines means they are incapable of soaring into the air if they are correctly designed, in other words incapable of 'free flight'.
My advice would be to treat free flight, soaring, and climbing machines as aircraft and that means 35mHz and everything else tied to the surface is going to be 40mHz or 27mHz. Of course, the newer high frequency equipment has its own applications already allocated but just obey the rules and you can't really go wrong.
If some unforseen accident were to occur and one was taken to court, I'm sure a good lawyer could argue that  the 'offender was seen to take all 'reasonable' steps to ensure common sense and safety were applied. Beyond that, there is not much else you could be seen to do.
Good luck with the airboat/ skimmer but make sure it isn't on 35mHz! O0
PS, all the 'off frequency' toys pouring into the shops should be fed through the crusher!
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