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Author Topic: Winston Churchill a Myth?  (Read 5297 times)

bigfella

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2008, 09:39:55 pm »

I always thought it was Micheal Caine on the Brits side and John Wayne on the Yanks side who won all wars. {-) {-)

Now then, not quite, 'cos if you watched that film, Michael Caine apparently 'just blew up!' and sadly there was nobody around on the German side to say those immortal words.. 'you're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!!  (in German of course!) {-)
Oh thanks awfully is one of the classic quotes when parachuting into someones green house and then offered a cigarette. Or the Polish pilot Good Afternoon...Good afternoon my ar$e git your hands up you bosh B.........
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toesupwa

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2008, 03:43:22 am »


Unfortunately there is too much in our history that would offend too many of the PC idiots nowadays which is why they seem to insist on watering it all down and manipulating it.

It remains to be seem whether the new Dam Busters Movie will actually contain a dog called "Nigger" or not.


Regarding the remake of the Dam Busters...
For the US release of the original (1955) film, the dogs name was dubbed to 'Trigger'...

Dambusters is a war film announced to be produced by Peter Jackson and directed by first time director Christian Rivers. It is a remake of the 1954 The Dam Busters. Jackson has said in the mid-1990s he became interested in remaking the 1954 film, but found that the rights had been bought by Mel Gibson. In 2004, Jackson was contacted by his agent, who said Gibson had dropped the rights. Stephen Fry is writing the script of the film. Casting would be decided in December 2007 or January 2008. It will be distributed by Universal Pictures and StudioCanal.

An issue that appeared soon after the film was announced was the naming of Wing Commander Guy Gibson's dog, Nigger. In the United States release of the 1954 film, the dog's name was redubbed as Trigger. Jackson has said no decision has been made on the dog's name, but is in a "no-win, damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't scenario", as changing the name could be seen as political correctness, while not changing the name could inadvertently offend people.

Much of the film will be shot in Wellington, New Zealand, with some filming in the United Kingdom also likely, with Scampton confirmed by Jackson as one of the filming sites. Scampton is the site of RAF Scampton, which in the Second World War was the home of 617 Squadron. Shooting will begin in April or May 2008. Ten full-size models of the Avro Lancaster aircraft will be built by Weta Workshop.
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White Ensign

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2008, 08:57:52 am »

Genlemen,
had been listening to the postings here with a sad and a lauging eye. Sad, that the miseducation of the youth seems to be a worldwide problem, not even a British problem.
Sad but true, the wide publicity has no idea, not even a rough imagination about hystorical facts. I don`t expect my son (age 14) to name me the exact year of the French Revolution, close-up with 30-50 years is o.K. But if pupils in 10th class, on their examn write that Adolf Hitler was Jewish and lived until somwhat in the 60`s.... that`s more than I can bear.
Had this discussion with my mate in Kent in the last weeks very often. It`s a shame and I`d rather got the feeling, where it stops, nobody knows.

About the Swastika: It is forbidden by law, to show the swastika in publicity. All reactions will lead into: "Are you a Nazi?". In my modeling opinion, the swastika on any model is no political statement. It is a historical part of the shown model. But, over-sensitive do-gooders in the publicity feel themselves as the lawyers of political correctness and will bring you (also by not really listening to historical facts) to police and court.

So, if you want to make your model scale in it`s appearance, there are water-decals available which give the Swastika right.

Just my penny.....

Jörg
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banjo

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth? Guy Gibson
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2008, 09:53:21 am »

Guy Gibson... 26 years of age..
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RickF

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2008, 09:58:26 am »

Quote
but found that the rights had been bought by Mel Gibson. In 2004, Jackson was contacted by his agent, who said Gibson had dropped the rights.

Well that's something to be thankful for. I can't imagine what someone with such a tenuous grasp on history and a rabid hatred of the British as Mel Gibson would have made of his namesake!

Rick
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banjo

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2008, 10:03:57 am »

Its the English that are the focus of his attentions.


I am led to believe that its because his mother was "frightened" by a matelot in the "Golden Bell" in Charlotte Street, Pompey some years ago... ;D
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oldiron

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2008, 12:02:01 pm »

Part of the problem is that as time goes on a higher percentage of the population are not of British ancestry but are first or second generation immigrants.  They have no interest in our culture, history or heritage and are certainly not told anything about it. 

Their children are not educated about it in schools because our education system is a joke so we are effectively slowly and surely cutting off our past.

I am in the process of reading a biography of the "Battle of Trafalgar" which has had me close to tears a couple of times.  What people went through for the good of this country is staggerring and this was a mere two hundred years ago.  Add the first world war only 100 years later and it continues to amaze me that we do not promote our history considerably more actively, especially in schools.

Unfortunately there is too much in our history that would offend too many of the PC idiots nowadays which is why they seem to insist on watering it all down and manipulating it.

It remains to be seem whether the new Dam Busters Movie will actually contain a dog called "Nigger" or not.

Added to this the British people are getting so fed up with it all they are all emigrating to foreign countries so it can only be a matter of time before the entire country is inhabited with people who know nothing of their place of residence.

   After reading to the posts relative to lost history on th UK, I have to add, you folks are not by yourselves. Here in Canada, revisionist history is  alive and well. As with Britain we have a large influx of immigrants from around the world, many, that along with Canada, were colonies of Britain. These people carry a large dislike of Britain an don't want to learn their history, despite the fact they are a small portion of British history. That said, the immigrants don't even want to learn Canadian history. The government and "well dowers" are happy to revise Canadian history to suit whatever immigrant population is appropriate to make them think they were major contributors to the building of this country. For example, a small segment on television, in the form of an advert put on by the Federal government, leads on to the conclusion the Chinese built the railways across Canada. In Toronto there is even a major monument downtown to the Chinese railway workers. So much bull droppings. The Chinese were only hired for a 125 mile contract in the Rocky Mountains. The remainder of the railways were built with local labour and a very large proportion of Irish immigrants.
  The same is happening with the Blacks. Now there is Black History month promoting the major contribution of Blacks to Canada. Except for a handfull who came to Canada during the Under Ground Railroad era, I guess you could say the major contribution is drugs, gangs, and illegal guns thrown in with nightly doses of gang fights, murders and robberies.
  US talk show host , Jay Leno, runs a regular piece called "Jay Walking" in which he interviews people on the street about a particular topic to test their "common " knowledge. Its unbelievable how little they know. They can't even find the States on a world map. and virtually none know anything of WW11, let alone any of the multitude of other wars they've been in, or are currently involved in.
  My point is, the UK is not alone in this. Its rampant in western civilization. Perhaps its part of the white man's guilt to forget his past history to make himself more amenable to the rest of the world. Good or bad, like it or not, we did it........whatever it was, we may as well learn about it.
  ...  steps off my soap box... >>:-(

oldiron
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djrobbo

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2008, 12:47:43 pm »

This was exactly my point........we did these things ....nelson stuffed the french at waterloo......we have lost thousands of men giving the french their country back.....TWICE.....our planes carried the roundels.......german planes had swastikas on the tail fin....these are all facts they happened ...you cant just make them disappear because some pillock might be upset by them.........A few years ago  maybe 4 or 5 i was invited to an indian wedding and the invitation card was very elaborate with inlaid gold letters etc..the border which ran all the way round the outside edges was made up entirely of swastikas.....tiny gold ones...but swastikas none the less...so in some cultures they have some meaning..........

         My point again is these things happened.....you cant pretend they didn't.... >>:-(

               regards.......bob.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2008, 12:56:28 pm »

Quote
And what about that guy who ran round Afghanistan with his cricket Bat
The Wolf of Kabul, with the dreaded "Clikky-ba"
Thinking back to one of my other history masters (a much more interesting one), it appears that he almost singlehandedly, with the aid of his Dakota, booted the Japanese army out of Burma, and he never saw Errol Flynn.
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splodger

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2008, 02:01:22 pm »

....nelson stuffed the french at waterloo......

And that Wellington. He was one hell of a sailor at Trafalgar.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2008, 02:03:17 pm »

Quote
My point again is these things happened.....you cant pretend they didn't....

Ah, but you can! And they do!
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White Ensign

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2008, 02:20:11 pm »

... Colin, wait until certain historians in the USA have another two history-books written, then even Vietnam was a victory....

Jörg
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elmo

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2008, 03:26:37 pm »

... Colin, wait until certain historians in the USA have another two history-books written, then even Vietnam was a victory....

Jörg

But it was a victory after all wasn't it? It was the end of communist expansion in South East Asia - which is exactly what the US had pledged to fight for... well they did - and it was - so there! Problem is, it didn't kinda run to the way it had been originally scripted!  ::)
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catengineman

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2008, 03:36:42 pm »

... Colin, wait until certain historians in the USA have another two history-books written, then even Vietnam was a victory....

Jörg

But it was a victory after all wasn't it? It was the end of communist expansion in South East Asia - which is exactly what the US had pledged to fight for... well they did - and it was - so there! Problem is, it didn't kinda run to the way it had been originally scripted!  ::)

I may be wrong but is there still a "no mans land" with armed posts between the two country's

R,
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elmo

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2008, 03:45:37 pm »



I may be wrong but is there still a "no mans land" with armed posts between the two country's

R,

The two Koreas - yes.
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White Ensign

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2008, 07:05:05 pm »

... depending on the point of view. I have spoken to some collegues from the USA, who had been as GI`s in vietnam. None of them found it was a victory. The wounds beaten to them can not be seen. We have to remind, boys age 18,19.... the average age of the men in the ground was 19! Politicians may say, the communism was pushed out- but just on half of the country. The men involved there say, their biggest fights had been to stay alive. And when they returned home, none of them received a heroes welcome. One collegue went into Saigon, two days before they went home. He said he`d never forget the last regular helicopter which left Saigon, where some of his mates hang on the carriers just to leave that country. Doesn`t sound very much like a victory.
But now, after the most of these men had died or pass away by whatever, they will call it a victory.... a Myth!
I have spend three times in Chartwell house, the home of Winston Churchill. Walking through you`ll see the history is still alive. And the myth turns reality.
As someone said before, he wasn`t perfect, but he was perfect for that job which needed to be done. A myth? Oh my god, I wonder what they learn today in school.

It reminds me on the lyrics by John Lennon: A day in the life....

It all seems surrealistic.... and sad but true, it has become reality. Winston Churchill a myth.... :o

O tempora, o mores....

Jörg
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farrow

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2008, 10:00:05 pm »

You know I am not surprised, because my daughter is a music teacher and due to a cut in the national curriculum, and a shortage of trained history teachers at her school. She has to cover History classes, last term she spent 11 weeks teaching them about the American plains Indians, also last year she covered Geography lesseons a subject she hated when she was a pupil and did not even bother to do GCE o level on it.
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Colin H

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2008, 10:36:03 pm »

A mate of mine is an art teacher he spent 4 months last year teaching cooking.

Trouble was he had not done the Elf & Safety course so could not use any equipment. Makes you cry.

Colin H.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2008, 10:42:25 pm »

I bet he did a good job of arranging the stuff on the plates though.... (even if it was cold)
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farrow

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2008, 09:00:36 am »

I am inclined to agree with Bunkerbarge, he has hit the problem on the head. My daughter is a music teacher and due to a cut back on the national curriculum, her class lessons were cut by 50%, so she was redeployed to cover Geography and History. Trouble is she disliked Geography at school and did not take GCE O level in the subject and in history she was instructed to teach for 11 weeks the history of the American plains Indians, thankfully this term they have employed a geography teacher but she still teaches history. When she left school to go onto University, she was never taught the English civil war and she had never heard of Elisabeth the 1st.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2008, 09:17:49 am »

Still, it's not just about being taught, it's also about reading. If you read a lot, even fiction, you will pick up historical information without realising it, and a great deal of other useful information as well. Some people make a virtue of "never reading books". I feel very sorry for them.
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White Ensign

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Re: Winston Churchill a Myth?
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2008, 10:37:20 am »

Colin, you are right insofar, as reading educates. But, if I look over the bookmarket some of the new releases make me cry. I.e. Books like the one of Dan Browne, which mix up reality with fiction- they can be taken as a half-truth. But what is right and what is wrong? Do you ever know when the Reality was mixed with fiction, how to sort it out? Me, I don`t think I can out of mind. If I doubt something I`ll have a go to make up my informations about the weak point. Talking about Fiction.... we have to submit, that a balanced mind, which picked up education will sort out the Fiction from Reality.
Somebody, who wasn`t very much open-minded to education and knowledge will not have the talent to sort this out. And this is (in my opinion) exactly the reason, why some say that a man like Winston Churchill was a myth.
Sorry that I have lead the discussion back to the beginning, but this is exatly where the circle closes. Education is the key to knowledge. Your first education starts with your parents and will be made up by school. Then, in a certain age it`s up to yourself, to care about your education. And to be honest, we live in a multimedia- society. With nearly overfloating masses of information. And obviously the education of the masses seems to fade. Finally it is a matter of your duty to care about education. But, if you watch the youngsters, their teachers, our complete society.... DUTY, RESPONSIBILITY, HONOUR, HELPFULLNESS..... and dozen other attitudes had become minor. The quick money, the hunt for profit ahd left attitudes behind. My son is a teenager, he is no exception. I often ask myself: What did I wrong? Or did I proof myself wrong? Do I hang onto the wrong attitudes, the wrong values in life? Am I a anachronism?

Cermon over.

Jörg
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