Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!  (Read 4150 times)

bbdave

  • Guest
Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« on: January 19, 2008, 04:20:40 PM »

Hi chaps i'm interested in building a sub but find the cost a great barrier. i would like to build a Revell Gato as a starter and thought just to run it as a surface model e.g.non diving or is this looked upon as a bit naff?. is it possible for the model to dive just on the planes or is there a system that is available (cheap) that will enable it to do so?.The water  i will be running in will not be clear so dives below 12" would be out anyway due to not knowing what lies beneath. any advice is gratefully recieved
Logged

Sub driver

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 605
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2008, 04:38:38 PM »

Hi,
It all depends what you are looking for in a submarine, Personally I would not attempt to modify a Revell Gato as a diving submarine IF this is your first venture into submarines. ( there is a lot of complex modifications to do )

If it made as a surface runner only then its not a submarine is it ? only a surface boat that looks like one . Plus it will have a low freeboard and will be easily swamped by
" others " unless it is well high up in the water then it will roll about on the surface as it will not be deep enough in the water to give it the stability it needs ( all subs are larger beneath the water than on top of it ) for this reason etc.

The cheepest way to get a sub that dives is to purchase a ROBBE Sea Wolf, easy build and a dynamic diver IE it goes under with forward motion only and will surface when power is cut or slowed.

It is one of the cheepest ways to get a proper submarine. and not complex at all.

It will teach you the fundamentals of Model submarines and how they work and you WILL learn a lot about the forces that work and the resulting effects they have on a model.

With the addition of a levelling device you will with a little practice be able to run the sub at a constant periscope depth which is quite satisfying.

If you take to being a "subbie" then the experience you have gained with this model will assist you greatly in you next model which no doubt will be a static dive IE it goes under by taking water on board and will dive statically.

Hope this is of some use to you IT IS addictive though.

Good hunting.  O0
Logged

bbdave

  • Guest
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2008, 06:28:06 PM »

Thanks sub diver i've always had a soft spot for subs but the cost put me off, I've not seen the robbe kits before they do look interesting though i do prefer the ww2 subs but i need to start somewhere and they do look a god option thank you
Logged

Sub driver

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 605
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2008, 07:32:30 PM »

No probs,

Glad to have been of assistance. ;D

when you have "cut your teeth " so to speak with the Robbe Sea wolf then there is always the U-47 and U-2540 both these can be built as static dive with the addition of Engel tanks. O0
Logged

periscope

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 72
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2008, 08:36:56 PM »

Hi bbDave - Well I would certainly endorse what Subdriver has said.  I was in the same position as you when I wanted to start with Subs - I prefer the WW2 type of image but believe me the Robbe seawolf is an ideal starter kit.  It is fully complete except of course for the radio gear.  It's great to be able to lurk around the pond as surface craft do but then just slink below the surface.  Have a look at this site for the best price available - they don't seem to be beaten at all.    Hope this info is of help Mate.        .

www.amodelworld.co.uk 

Ian
Logged
The best cure for sea-sickness is to sit under a tree.

Mankster

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 770
  • Wheelerdealer
  • Location: London, UK
    • RC Model Submarines
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2008, 09:27:32 PM »

If you prefer WWII subs then this would make an ideal starter http://www.model-dockyard.com/krick/u-boat.htm . Nowhere near as scale as a Revell but would probably end up cheaper than trying to convert a Revell VII. Its an assisted dynamic diver with the ballast tanks bull the sub is still positivley boyant.

bbdave

  • Guest
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2008, 09:55:14 PM »

Cheers periscope and mankster the krick boat costs more but obviously apeals more than the robbe the prices are quite different so what are peoples preferences on these two are there any pros and cons?? or should the robbe be a start point and then the krick?
Logged

Mankster

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 770
  • Wheelerdealer
  • Location: London, UK
    • RC Model Submarines
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2008, 10:58:33 PM »

The Robbe Seawolf and Krick are both starter boats, the Krick cost more due to the addition of the Ballast tank, and should dive in a more realist manner and can be run submerged at far lower speeds than the Robbe. If funds allow I'd go for the Krick; easy to convert to full static dive when your comfortable with it too.

Subculture

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,910
  • Location: North London
    • Dive-in to Model submarines
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2008, 08:26:39 AM »

In model submarine terms, rate the Robbe over the Krick boat. Why?

The Robbe has a well designed, extruded cylindrical pressure hull which will be safe to 30 feet. The Krick boat has a vac-formed box, okay for dipping a a foot or so beneath the surface, but I wouldn't want to trust it beyond that to be honest.

You haven't given any details of your modelmaking experience, also a top end price for what you are prepared to spend would be helpful.

You would do very well to look for a secondhand kit, as you can save a lot of money that way, and end up with a better boat. However most kits on the market need a high standard of modelmaking skill.

Andy

KenP

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 217
  • Model Bioat Mayhem Forum is theBest!
  • Location: Verwood, Dorset. ( near Bournemouth)
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2008, 03:07:38 PM »

My first sub. - only sub

I built an Engels U-boat. Put it all together, too big to go in the bath, so got a cheap paddling pool to try it out.
All the gizmos installed inc batteries to check the ballasting.
Bloody waterproof compartment isn't !!!!

Got to take all the gear out and recheck waterproofing. Now on backburner as I started static HMS Victory.

Any interested buyers !!!!






Logged

Subculture

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,910
  • Location: North London
    • Dive-in to Model submarines
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2008, 04:30:36 PM »

What engel submarine is it?

If it's the type with a flat sheet to seal the hull, you can fit a schraeder (tyre) valve in the lid. A few pumps with a bicycle pump, and plopped back in the paddling pool a stream of bubbles should soon show up where the boat is leaking.

Andy

bbdave

  • Guest
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2008, 04:54:11 PM »

Thanks subculture i would put myself as intermediate moddeling wise i'm fitting out a yacht hull at the moment i bought off ebay got the build in the yacht and sail section i'm confident with usual build techniques and can fabricate my own bits. As to budget free is normaly my top end but i understand subs are alot more involved the seawolf looks a good start point then maybe at a later date i'll sell my steam plant to fund a nice scale sub kit. I'm just feeling the water on here to gather oppinions which will always conflict and differ but as i know very little it is all of interest. i would like to take a look at some models does anyone in or near lincolnshire operate a sub?
Logged

Subculture

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,910
  • Location: North London
    • Dive-in to Model submarines
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2008, 11:29:13 AM »

The Seawolf is a good handling boat. It's a mistake to think that because it's inexpensive, it's inferior to other kits out there. It's a very capable little boat, easy to transport, handles very well and there a lot of commercial upgrades for this model.

There is one omission on the part of Robbe, and that is the lack of a stuffing box for the propshaft. They rely on a grease filled stern tube to prevent water ingress.

This works okay, but a stuffing box/glanded shaft is a better long term solution.

If you have yet to purchase a radio set, I would recommend a minimum of 6-channels. Three is sufficient to operate a Seawolf, but if later on you want to add working forward hydrovanes and/or a ballast system, working lights etc. you have the facility for this.

Andy

Sub driver

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 605
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2008, 04:41:09 PM »

bbdave.

If you are interested I have a friend who is selling a BRAND NEW UNSTARTED Robbe U-47 STII IN ITS BOX for 175.00 + postage, normal retail is 229.
If you are interested send me a PM and I will forward you his details.
Logged

bbdave

  • Guest
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2008, 05:26:05 PM »

Sub driver PM sent


 is it possible to convert these to static dive at a later date or is that not possible once the boats complete?
Logged

Subculture

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,910
  • Location: North London
    • Dive-in to Model submarines

Mankster

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 770
  • Wheelerdealer
  • Location: London, UK
    • RC Model Submarines
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2008, 06:49:32 PM »

Yes you can convert it at a later day though you can save some money later all on and make it easier to convert if you make a few modification during the intial build. For example the Robbe battery pack for the  kit wont fit after you install the piston tank. And you may want to get rid of the plastic equipment tray and replace it with something sturdier to contain the ballast tank.

Sub driver

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 605
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2008, 07:26:39 PM »

bbdave,

I have past your interest on ward,

It is quite easy to convert to a static dive with the addition of an Engel tank when funds allow, we can give you some advice on here as to what modifications to make when building the boat to allow this, I have converted the U-47 and type XX1 U-2540 and can show you some pics of the conversion should you wish.

Regards Sub.
Logged

bbdave

  • Guest
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2008, 08:13:30 PM »

Thanks sub driver deal done!.

The brass etchings look worth having maybe even the viic conversion. i would be very interested in seeing any pictures you have thanks again for all the advice so far.
Logged

Sub driver

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 605
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2008, 08:42:23 PM »

Hi, bbdave

Here hopefully are two of the 750 ml engel piston tank fitted , you can get this direct from engel + the ballast tank switch ( germany ) or Pandan model boats ( UK ) sell both as a package, you will see the tank is at an angle , this is to allow the piston rod to pass under the central tray. The ballast tank switch controlls the flood / surface control of the tank + it has three failsafes built in , 1 for battery voltage , 1 for signal loss, and 1 for water ingress.

A lot to take in  I know so you can contact during build for mods advice when reqd if you wish.
Logged

Sub driver

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 605
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2008, 08:52:55 PM »

bbdave,

Here hopefully are a couple of my highly modified Robbe , now a type V11-C, U-69 first of the  "c"  class boats. lots of mods but at least you can see what can be achieved with this kit.

Best regards sub.
Logged

bbdave

  • Guest
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2008, 10:55:47 PM »

Thats a cracking looking sub i'll look forward to building mine i may wait and gather all the bits i want so i can build it as i want it but your pictures sure given me the appetite and good reason to take my time with the model thank you for the offer of advice i'm sure i'll making a pain of myself in the not to distant future. It's wrong what they say you know, you sub guys are a friendly bunch O0
Logged

Sub driver

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 605
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2008, 10:05:29 AM »

 bbdave.

Thanks for the compliment, she turned out quite well , she took second certificate at the Northern Model Engineering Exhibition a couple of yrs back now.

Your welcome, and yep most of us are friendly O0
Logged

robbo770

  • Guest
Re: Do i build a sub or not? HELP!
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2008, 11:07:41 PM »

I'll second that, and if you PM me I'll do you some discount on Sub electronics to get you going like the APC-4 leveling device which I am sure all will agree make sub manovuring much easier!

Happy New Year

Rob at SubTech
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up