Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Extreme Weathering  (Read 5848 times)

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,850
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Extreme Weathering
« on: March 02, 2008, 11:11:04 am »

Saw this in Portsmouth dockyard this morning. Presumably an old RNAS vessel but I don't know which one. Serves as a good guide for weathering though.
Logged

Brian_C

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 392
  • Location: north shields
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2008, 11:22:37 am »

hi colin  that would of been a good one for guess that ship    :D {-) O0
Logged

Shipmate60

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,454
  • You bark - I will bite!!!
  • Location: Fareham
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2008, 11:43:49 am »

Colin,
Isnt she the "Rame Head". This ship is used for training boarding ships boarding parties so has no crew to maintain her.

Bob
Logged
Officially a GOG.

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,850
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2008, 11:56:05 am »

Yes, Bob, now you mention it, I'm sure you are right. She's usually parked up in the Fareham Channel I think ,but I suppose they need to do a bit of minimum maintenance sometimes.

Colin.
Logged

Shipmate60

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,454
  • You bark - I will bite!!!
  • Location: Fareham
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2008, 12:16:09 pm »

She will be docked, surveyed and painted, but only on a ten yearly cycle if my memory serves me correctly.

Bob
Logged
Officially a GOG.

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,893
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2008, 02:14:23 pm »

That isn't weathering....it's terminal neglect. Fit only for scrap...and not much of that either. Mind you, the bridge windows could be useful as a flat glass, and it is probably armoured. BY.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

Bunkerbarge

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,367
  • Location: Halifax, UK
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2008, 03:48:18 pm »

You cannot beat shots like that Colin to help people develop thier weathering techniques.  Great pictures and very usefull.

Here's a couple I took a while ago as we went past a bulkie with a well used appearance!!
Logged
"Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack, Butting through the Channel in the mad March days"

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,893
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2008, 07:28:05 pm »

It's all very well talking about "weathering" but a lot of what you see is between the loaded level and the unloaded level (twixt wind and water). With a well-found ship you will find rusty marks in places like overboard scuppers,discharges etc. These are "weathering" marks and not rust...only paint stains in the main. A bit of "soojee" takes most of it off.
I appreciate that most modern freighters suffer from a lack of cosmetic tittyvating but that is a commercial decision taken by the owners. Appearance means nothing to them. But who really builds models of hard used modern bulk carriers?
Weathering on WW2 corvettes/destroyers etc. is an entirely different thing. Most of what is visible is again cosmetic, caused by salt spray whapping against fairly soft paint, so little streaks appear downwind. Outfalls from deck level scuppers really should not be vertical, but drifted astern a little....where the wind would take it. PLEASE do not over-weather a model. Time and tide will take care of most of it for you. BY.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

Bunkerbarge

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,367
  • Location: Halifax, UK
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2008, 07:54:08 pm »

The idea of the pictures Bryan is to show modellers what rust and varying surface effects actually looks like.  Many modellers take on the task of weathering without studying the real life examples to see just how they form.

Weathering, as always, is up to the individual and I would always suggest that less is better but if you are going to create rust effects than at least refer to real life subjects for your guidance.

Also a lot depends on your subject and the scale you are working at.  Most rust on a 1/128th warship would hardly be noticeable however every single picture I have seen of an early 20th century coastal steamer had rusty and dirty exteriors and this would be readily visible at 1/35th scale.  My own point of view is that vessels of that age were not painted with spray guns, they were touched up over many years to the point where the surfaces were a multitude of textures and hues.  A perfectly sprayed hull finish may be what you are after if you are trying to achieve a yard model but for a realistic representation you have to look at weathering the surfaces.  To this end I have deliberately not sprayed the hull or the accomodation.  I have used a small flat brush, similar in size to the scale real one and I have varied both the colour and the amount of shine.

Mine will probably be considered as heavily weathered but, as a direct copy of the original would look quite a mess, I will be trying to find a balance between what is acceptable for a model and what would have been reality.

As for scuppers, I completely agree that the streaks drift towards the stern which is exactly the kind of effect the pictures are supposed to make you think a bit about.

Logged
"Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack, Butting through the Channel in the mad March days"

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,893
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2008, 09:28:16 pm »

The idea of the pictures Bryan is to show modellers what rust and varying surface effects actually looks like.  Many modellers take on the task of weathering without studying the real life examples to see just how they form.

Weathering, as always, is up to the individual and I would always suggest that less is better but if you are going to create rust effects than at least refer to real life subjects for your guidance.

Also a lot depends on your subject and the scale you are working at.  Most rust on a 1/128th warship would hardly be noticeable however every single picture I have seen of an early 20th century coastal steamer had rusty and dirty exteriors and this would be readily visible at 1/35th scale.  My own point of view is that vessels of that age were not painted with spray guns, they were touched up over many years to the point where the surfaces were a multitude of textures and hues.  A perfectly sprayed hull finish may be what you are after if you are trying to achieve a yard model but for a realistic representation you have to look at weathering the surfaces.  To this end I have deliberately not sprayed the hull or the accomodation.  I have used a small flat brush, similar in size to the scale real one and I have varied both the colour and the amount of shine.

Mine will probably be considered as heavily weathered but, as a direct copy of the original would look quite a mess, I will be trying to find a balance between what is acceptable for a model and what would have been reality.

As for scuppers, I completely agree that the streaks drift towards the stern which is exactly the kind of effect the pictures are supposed to make you think a bit about.


Points taken and mostly agreed....but my point is  please do not over-do it. Not all ships look like "Rame Head" (or whatever) when in service.
Even the ships in San Carlos sound were "mucky" but after a bit of TLC looked OK again.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,850
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2008, 09:52:12 pm »

Probably "weathering" was the wrong title fot this topic. It's just that as we came into Portsmouth this morning I did a double take at this apparent wreck tied up in the dockyard, I knew the Navy was having a hard time but....

As for weathering models I agree entirely that you have to decide the sort of effect you want to achieve and then reproduce it as accurately as possible, as BB says, less is usually more and many people tend to overdo it. With the type of models I usually build I prefer to go for the just built/out of refit pristine appearance but I do appreciate the weathered approach if it is done well. When out and about in the Solent, it is quite striking to see the difference in appearance between the various full size vessels that pass you. Some are almost "as new" others look dreadful.

I couldn't help noticing this morning that some of the RN ships in commission are looking a bit neglected which may reflect the budget cuts. Looks like we'll soon be back to the Nelsonian/Victorian tradition of the Captain/Commander shelling out for Dulux to keep his ship looking smart.
Logged

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,893
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2008, 04:10:52 pm »

Probably "weathering" was the wrong title fot this topic. It's just that as we came into Portsmouth this morning I did a double take at this apparent wreck tied up in the dockyard, I knew the Navy was having a hard time but....

As for weathering models I agree entirely that you have to decide the sort of effect you want to achieve and then reproduce it as accurately as possible, as BB says, less is usually more and many people tend to overdo it. With the type of models I usually build I prefer to go for the just built/out of refit pristine appearance but I do appreciate the weathered approach if it is done well. When out and about in the Solent, it is quite striking to see the difference in appearance between the various full size vessels that pass you. Some are almost "as new" others look dreadful.

I couldn't help noticing this morning that some of the RN ships in commission are looking a bit neglected which may reflect the budget cuts. Looks like we'll soon be back to the Nelsonian/Victorian tradition of the Captain/Commander shelling out for Dulux to keep his ship looking smart.
Once upon a time....when I was based in Rio there was an official visit by a squadron of RN ships (yes, we did have more than one ship in the 1960's). The Brazzi navy was strapped for cash. Their destroyers were all rafted up about 6 deep and looked dreadful. So that they would look OK when the RN came in they painted only the bits that could be seen from a passing ship. Made matters worse I think. BY.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

Bunkerbarge

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,367
  • Location: Halifax, UK
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2008, 05:17:53 pm »

I actually think that over the years people have come to think of weathering as simply dirtying thier model and adding rust.  Weathering, is nothing of the sort, it is trying to make the model look as realistic as possible by creating the effects of age and use on your model. 

It could be the most pristine ship afloat but there are weathering techniques that will help your model to look more realistic and make it stand out.  Weathering should be very subtle and the easiest mistake to make is overdoing it.  This is where I am hoping to make use of my plastic modelling experience to weather my model boats and really bring them to life.

Some of what I will be doing to the steamer will be things like colour washes to enhance shadows in such areas as deck detail and dry brush techniques to pick out highlights.  Just carefull use of these two techniques bring the model to life in a dramatic way and neither technique have anything to do with either dirt or rust.  The dirt I will be applying will be with a mixture of pastels and powders carefully applied with flat brushes before sealing in with a matt clear finish. 

Finally I think another big mistake is over using airbrushes.  More often than not dirt or grime builds up in a certain direction for a specific reason, such as from scuppers and drains, and even rust usually forms in vertical streaks from a source of running water.  The only place I always use the airbrush for weathering is soot stains around the funnel that does form in such a softly shaded way.
Logged
"Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke stack, Butting through the Channel in the mad March days"

farrow

  • Guest
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2008, 11:28:49 pm »

It is the Rame Head, she was removed from her up harbour moorings to allow essential maintenance on her moorings. She is the SBS training hulk where they conduct live firing below and practice blowing down bulkheads etc. She is scheduled soon to be replaced by the ex RFA Sir Tristian. The hull will be demolished this side of the Atlantic but the main engine will be salvaged and displayed in Canada, as the vessel is still owned by Canada.There is virtually no bulkheads left in the old girl and numerous small patches on her side.
Logged

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,893
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2008, 04:34:48 pm »

Interesting that "they" should want to use "Sir Tristram".  She has already been blown up once in her life. Have they no soull? But if they want to blow up bulkheads they better get another ship as the "Tristram" class didn't really have any in the first place. The LSLs were really just a big raft with "stuff" built on top. A nautical truck. Great ships though. Watched a hovercraft once coming in through the back door, scooting along the tank deck and out of the front door. I reckon the ultimate would be to chain a few LSLs together and use them as a floating tunnel. BY.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

portside II

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,523
  • tugs at rest
  • Location: Howden.East Riding of Yorkshire.England Near the banks of the river Ouse
    • goole model boat club indi site
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2008, 11:14:39 pm »

does this count as extreme weathering  {-) .
daz
Logged
I like to build my boats to play with, not to just look pretty,so they dont !

Ghost in the shell

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,707
  • Go Nuclear! you'll love it
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2008, 08:05:44 pm »

... do not over-weather a model. Time and tide will take care of most of it for you. BY.
Bry, I took 3 models to a show in February, the South Cheshire Militaire show, and entered in the RC section the model of Celestia that I have, covered in scratches, and with paint flaked off where items have been removed off decks, in particularly where I had removed the gantry crane and track, and I got third place.

As a model it has been on the water for a couple of years now and has been touched up, however the underside of the hull is loosing paint where it has been scraped off on the stand. 

as for warships, Malc from the blackpool club has a corvette that sails in salt water, and its anchor chains are rusty, with REAL rust
Logged
"xxxxx" the tree huggers, GO NUCLEAR

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,893
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2008, 05:34:00 pm »

... do not over-weather a model. Time and tide will take care of most of it for you. BY.
Bry, I took 3 models to a show in February, the South Cheshire Militaire show, and entered in the RC section the model of Celestia that I have, covered in scratches, and with paint flaked off where items have been removed off decks, in particularly where I had removed the gantry crane and track, and I got third place.

As a model it has been on the water for a couple of years now and has been touched up, however the underside of the hull is loosing paint where it has been scraped off on the stand. 

as for warships, Malc from the blackpool club has a corvette that sails in salt water, and its anchor chains are rusty, with REAL rust
Good for him! I feel the same way. When the model is new and pristine that is the best it's going to look. Then I just let time get on with it...apart from a bit of dust removal now and again.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

craftysod

  • Guest
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2008, 04:15:46 pm »

I know this thread is old,i've just joined this site,but it is interesting to see the rame head and invincible behind her.
I stayed on the rame head when she was tied up at hms excellent,she was used as an accomodation boat for sea cadets in the 70's
and as for invincible that was my first ship when i joined the navy.
thats my two pence worth
Logged

catengineman

  • Guest
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2008, 06:14:40 pm »

I too only let the weathering take place by itself, even the chips and scratches are left and I have just changed the livery on Tito but the white looks like it was done thirty year ago (just my cr#p painting)

R,
Logged

das boot

  • Guest
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2008, 08:55:59 pm »

You want weathering? I'll show you weathering...and no, it's not mine!


Rich

Logged

das boot

  • Guest
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2008, 08:57:04 pm »

One more...

Rich
Logged

das boot

  • Guest
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2008, 08:58:03 pm »

And one more...

Rich
Logged

das boot

  • Guest
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2008, 09:00:11 pm »

Last one. The boat belongs to a guy in the States(can't remember his name off hand)...that's what weathering on a late war U-boat should look like.

Rich
Logged

TugCowboy

  • Guest
Re: Extreme Weathering
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2008, 11:14:03 pm »

Now that I like! thanks for sharing Rich!

(Just don't let BY see ;) )
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up