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Author Topic: Binnacle and Telegraph  (Read 7260 times)

barryfoote

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Binnacle and Telegraph
« on: March 19, 2008, 03:59:52 PM »

A bit of help needed here chaps regarding the Binnacle and telegraph on my 1890's Lady T tug.

I have bought from MMM the white metal casting for both the above but have no idea how to finish them. I know may of these instruments would have been in brass but, on a working tug?

With regards to the Telegraph, what would be the signs on it and what colour would the face have been?

Sorry about this but I want to get it as Accurate as I can,

Thanks in advance..

Barry
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2008, 04:14:25 PM »

Hi Barry,

Pics below may be of use. The book is John Bowen's "A Ship Modelmaker's Manual" and the colour oic is one I took on board the square rigger Balaclutha which is preserved in San Francisco and is about the same period as your model.

Colin

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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2008, 05:46:23 PM »

Barry,

Have a look at the Ben Ain build here:

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6094.0

I have two large scale models of a binacle and a telegraph and I used photographs of the faces on them for my model.  Obviously scale them, print them out and glue them onto your fittings.

I'll get the pictures later.
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oldiron

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2008, 06:55:17 PM »

A bit of help needed here chaps regarding the Binnacle and telegraph on my 1890's Lady T tug.

I have bought from MMM the white metal casting for both the above but have no idea how to finish them. I know may of these instruments would have been in brass but, on a working tug?

With regards to the Telegraph, what would be the signs on it and what colour would the face have been?

Sorry about this but I want to get it as Accurate as I can,

Thanks in advance..

Barry

Barry:

 Tugs of the vintage you are doing would most definitely have had polished brass telegraphs and binnacles. I've tried four times to load a number of photos and it kicks me out each time with either too large a file aor the wrong type of file. We'll try again.
oldiron
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oldiron

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2008, 06:57:20 PM »

A bit of help needed here chaps regarding the Binnacle and telegraph on my 1890's Lady T tug.

I have bought from MMM the white metal casting for both the above but have no idea how to finish them. I know may of these instruments would have been in brass but, on a working tug?

With regards to the Telegraph, what would be the signs on it and what colour would the face have been?

Sorry about this but I want to get it as Accurate as I can,

Thanks in advance..

Barry

Barry:

 Tugs of the vintage you are doing would most definitely have had polished brass telegraphs and binnacles. I've tried four times to load a number of photos and it kicks me out each time with either too large a file aor the wrong type of file. We'll try again.
oldiron

I neglected to point out the photos I posted are from the 1895 tug SS Master preserved an operating in Vancouver Canada.
I've got more shots of telegraph faces if you want more.

oldiron
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barryfoote

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2008, 07:24:01 PM »

Thankyou very much guys for the advise. I have learned much from what is always a great site full of great people.

Bunkerbarge:

Those photos would be much appreciated if possible..

Barry
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2008, 09:31:59 PM »

Barry, These are what I used on mine.

Don't forget that the aft section faces astern so on the left side looking from stbd and on the right side looking from port.
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2008, 09:39:59 PM »

A couple of them going together.

Also don't forget the inside of the binacle was white to reflect the light from the lamp.
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barryfoote

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2008, 10:14:28 PM »

Superb guys. Chuffed I am. Will let you all see the results..

Barry
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Dave Buckingham

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2008, 10:38:48 PM »

Hi Bunkerbarge and Footski
Ref last picture the brass stand should be in front of the wheel it would be very hard to steer like that.

Most hydraulic steering had about 3 1/2 turns each way and chain drive ones could be hard to turn at times so you dont want anything in the way.

Dave
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Dave Buckingham

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2008, 10:43:12 PM »

Should also have said The Binnacle should be also close in front of the wheel so the helmsman could see the heading to steer.
Dave again
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funtimefrankie

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2008, 10:55:01 PM »

Chadburns is still operating, in Liverpool, delivered some tools there today.
Don't seem to make telegraphs any more.
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Proteus

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2008, 11:50:15 PM »

Bunkerbarge

did the telegraph come with the legends on the side.if not where did you get them from.

Fredy
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2008, 12:57:57 AM »

Hi Bunkerbarge and Footski
Ref last picture the brass stand should be in front of the wheel it would be very hard to steer like that.

Most hydraulic steering had about 3 1/2 turns each way and chain drive ones could be hard to turn at times so you dont want anything in the way.

Dave

Many thanks for pointing out the error.  Could you please let me have a copy of the picture or documentation that you have which shows this?

I actually thought I have collected most of the information out there regarding this particular ship but obviously I must have missed something.  The photographs I have of this ship, the excellent plan printed in CV Wains "Coasters and Short Sea traders", the original makers plans kindly copied for me by the vessels last owner "The Ramsey Steamship Company" and obviously the kit manufacturers plans must all therefore be incorrect.

Not surprisingly all these documents also clearly show the position of the binacle so that is something alse I must correct.
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barryfoote

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2008, 07:32:37 AM »

Hi Bunkerbarge and Footski
Ref last picture the brass stand should be in front of the wheel it would be very hard to steer like that.

Most hydraulic steering had about 3 1/2 turns each way and chain drive ones could be hard to turn at times so you dont want anything in the way.

Dave

Many thanks for pointing out the error.  Could you please let me have a copy of the picture or documentation that you have which shows this?

I actually thought I have collected most of the information out there regarding this particular ship but obviously I must have missed something.  The photographs I have of this ship, the excellent plan printed in CV Wains "Coasters and Short Sea traders", the original makers plans kindly copied for me by the vessels last owner "The Ramsey Steamship Company" and obviously the kit manufacturers plans must all therefore be incorrect.

Not surprisingly all these documents also clearly show the position of the binacle so that is something alse I must correct.

Is it possible that the Binnacle is in the right place but the wheel is the wrong way round?
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Dave Buckingham

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2008, 07:43:16 AM »

Hi Barry
From 35 years at sea wheel normally close to Binnacle think of standing at wheel you need to be able to turn it all the way round without anything in the way and see the course to steer

I am talking deep see ships river craft might not need the compass close but would still need to turn the wheel.

Dave

PS See you on the 20th April
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John W E

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2008, 08:43:02 AM »

hi there one and all

This is the only picture I can dig out at the minute, but, I am sure I may have a photograph of an 'open topped bridge' with steering wheel, binnacle shown - from when I built the Cervia - I cannot lay me hands on the pic at the min.

Just food for thought though, sometimes steering wheels were on the large side and were operated by two men.   The reason for this being there was no assistance from a steam engine in the very early days; helping out with steering.

The other thing is - on many old ships they had a small steerng wheel on the 'open topped bridge' which was mechanically linked to a larger steering wheel below decks.   The larger steering wheel could be dis-engaged from the steering engine and it would only be used in cases of an emergency because it could over-ride the steering engine.

aye
john
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2008, 09:02:35 AM »

Like I said, unless anyone has a plan that shows otherwise, I will follow all the evidence I have collected.

As Bluebird has suggested I was led to believe that such steering arrangements required two men and unless the 35 years of experience included a trip on this particular vessel I will follow the plans.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2008, 10:02:21 AM »

I think Bluebird is right, having the casing behind the wheel makes it easier for two men to manage it in rough weather when there is no steering engine available.  In normal conditions the helmsman would stand beside the wheel where he can see the course to steer in the binnacle. I have a picture of a square rigger showing this arrangement and it is also clearly shown in this picture of the Steam Yacht Medea of around the same vintage as Ben Ain. You can just see the binnacle.

Colin
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oldiron

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2008, 10:14:02 AM »

hi there one and all

This is the only picture I can dig out at the minute, but, I am sure I may have a photograph of an 'open topped bridge' with steering wheel, binnacle shown - from when I built the Cervia - I cannot lay me hands on the pic at the min.


aye
john

Is the picture you posted with this quote of the pilot house of one of the preserved Liberty Ships? I've been in the pilot house of the Brown and it looks just like thgis, with an open top wheel deck above. In the phot you can see the extensions going upward from the telegraph and the wheel to reach the duplicate controls above.

oldiron
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oldiron

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2008, 10:24:23 AM »

Just to add more fuel and variation to the fire, I've added some photos from "outdoor" wheels and binnacles. No pun intended on the fact they are outdoors in the picture. A chap in Meaford, Ontario is a retired Great Lakes captain. He's got a large collection of marine memorabilia on his front lawn, from life boats and davits to wheels and binnacles.
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oldiron

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2008, 11:12:08 AM »

I scrounged through my photos and found these I took on the liberty ship "John Brown". The show both the "indoo"r and "outdoor" wheel houses for those who need some more nfo on same.

oldiron
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John W E

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2008, 12:43:58 PM »

hi there, the picture comes from the Book 'Convoy Merchant Sailors at War 1939-1945' by
Philip Kaplan and Jack Currie ISBN number 1854105515  -  the image comes from SS Jeremiah O'Brien
preserved in San Francisco - it is a good book.   Lot  of illustrations.

Aye
john e
bluebird
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barryfoote

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2008, 03:28:43 PM »

Hi Barry
From 35 years at sea wheel normally close to Binnacle think of standing at wheel you need to be able to turn it all the way round without anything in the way and see the course to steer

I am talking deep see ships river craft might not need the compass close but would still need to turn the wheel.

Dave

PS See you on the 20th April
Hi dave and good to hear from you...What I meant was that the Binnacle is right, but the ships wheel needs turning on its access so the post is on the other side. That would make things right......or am I missing something....

I think Bunkerbarge has it spot on apart from the wheel...
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Binnacle and Telegraph
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2008, 03:43:55 PM »

Going by the original manufacturers drawing and a photograph I have the wheel on my ship is in the correct position.

For your own vessel, check the plans and position accordingly.  If you haven't got plans then you will have to decide which you think is most likely.
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