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Author Topic: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird  (Read 53541 times)

Bunkerbarge

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Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« on: March 23, 2008, 08:01:45 PM »

Please feel free to share your Questions and comments on Bluebirds build in this thread.

Build thread:    63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH WHALEBACK   )
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John W E

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2008, 08:48:36 PM »

John- needless to say that this is an absolutely excellent job you have made there. As I am a bit in that fast-scale-theme I wonder, why you have made it plank on frame. Was it your opinion to catch up the hull, like the origin had been built?
Don`t want to doubt in any way what you have done- just want to come behind the idea.
Thankkyou in advance.
Jörg


Hi there Jorg - to try and answer your above questions:

When I originally thought about building this hull, it was to try and show newcomers to the hobby what diagonal planking was about; so, originally I was only going to 'single plank' the hull and keep it at the scale of 1/2 inch to the foot and in doing so, I was planning on using brushless motors.  This brushless motor field was going to be a new learning curve for me personally - but, due to the expense of the brushless set-up, it wasnt a viable option.   I then began to rethink the build and it was at that stage that I decided to build a double-diagonally planked hull, using the inner planks as semi-scale, which should show the beginner or the 'newby' the basics of the planking method.  It would also show others, by adding the scale planking to the outside, how to commence producing a hull near enough to the original full size hull.

With using light materials, as I did with the very thin ply, this meant keeping the weight down to an extremely light hull.    When I took the hull from the building board, I weighed it, and it came in at 2lb and 8oz this is without any running gear added.   This hull is some 39 1/2 inches long, by 10 1/2 inches beam and I think you will find, you will have to go some, to find a fibre-glass hull as light as that, unless we begin to use carbon fibres.

Hope that helps to answer your question Jorg.   If not, fire away with more queries.    :)

aye
john e
bluebird

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2008, 09:45:09 PM »

Hi John,
thankyou for the answer. Well, that explains a lot. Now I have to calculate the imperials into metric....
2lb = 2x453,6 Gramm= 907,2 Gramm
8oz= 8x28,35 Gramm= 226,8 Gramm
Total:                       1134,0 Gramm= 1,134 Kilogramm

Length: 39 1/2 " x 2,542= 100,4 cm
Beam: 10 1/2 " x 2,542= 26,69 cm

That gives me a very good relation to my 70`CMB hull, which is out of fibreglass with a deadweigth of in total 700 Gramm at nearly the same dimensions.
I think, that the most people mould much too thick with too many layers when using fibre and carbon isn`t the final answer.
However, this should not be meant to reduce your quality or skill. An awsome job which I am sure, I`d never reach (or just with very much difficulties.
Your photographs remind me on a shipmate at the SWA. He made a MTB all the same way and won the Duke of Edinborough-Trophy some years ago with it.

Again, thankyou for your information. Great to talk with shipmates about their technics. Go on with it, I`m excited to see some more.

Jörg
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Martin13

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2008, 10:51:59 AM »

John,

Great build.. Love the double diagonal planking. tried it out on my BB and was surprised by how strong the hull is before fibreglassing.

I.m just a little confused by one matter and that is why have you painted the hull after laying mahogany planking. I thought that the planking was going to be a feature of the model.....or have I missed something.

One other thing - when you were talking about the prop shaft exits and rudder positioning - how does one  do this when your (mine) drawings do not show this detail....I hope I do not install them at the wrong end.


Martin Doon Under
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John W E

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2008, 11:36:49 AM »

Hi there Martin - in response to your queries....

I.m just a little confused by one matter and that is why have you painted the hull after laying mahogany planking. I thought that the planking was going to be a feature of the model.....or have I missed something.

One other thing - when you were talking about the prop shaft exits and rudder positioning - how does one  do this when your (mine) drawings do not show this detail....I hope I do not install them at the wrong end.


First of all - painting the planks - I myself would have loved to have left the mahogany showing and just with a coating of Epoxy - because, before I painted her, you would think she had been French Polished (the boat not the Mrs )  :)  but to keep in with authenticity of the model; we have had to paint her.

In certain lighting, looking along the hull, one can make out some individual planks along the side which you sometimes can see in the life sized boats.

With regards to props and rudders - there should be somewhere on your plans mention of position of motors in the hull.     O0   If not, though, will have to look for some photographs/other drawings either on the web or in the books, which we can use and scale up to suit your drawings and take the dimensions from there.   Although, having said that, are you going to make your hull a 'single screw' or are you going to go for the 'triple screw' ??.

Aye
John
Bluebird  O0

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Martin13

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2008, 07:20:48 PM »

Hi there Martin - in response to your queries....

First of all - painting the planks - I myself would have loved to have left the mahogany showing and just with a coating of Epoxy - because, before I painted her, you would think she had been French Polished (the boat not the Mrs )  :)  but to keep in with authenticity of the model; we have had to paint her.

In certain lighting, looking along the hull, one can make out some individual planks along the side which you sometimes can see in the life sized boats.

With regards to props and rudders - there should be somewhere on your plans mention of position of motors in the hull.     O0   If not, though, will have to look for some photographs/other drawings either on the web or in the books, which we can use and scale up to suit your drawings and take the dimensions from there.   Although, having said that, are you going to make your hull a 'single screw' or are you going to go for the 'triple screw' ??.

Aye
John
Bluebird  O0



Hi John,

I new I had missed something about the mahogany being painted.

As for the propshafts and rudders, I intend building as three screws.
The drawings show the location of the gas turbine engines , gearboxes, exhausts etc, but weeing I do not have the technical prowess with the real boat - am a little confused. Don't worry about chasing down pic's as I have about 35 photo's of the beast when she was first laid down with a couple showing props and rudders.

I will send CD with the plans -

Thanks again

Martin doon under
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Martin13

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2008, 07:26:53 PM »

[boats.






The drawings show the location of the gas turbine engines , gearboxes, exhausts etc, but weeing I do not have the technical prowess with the
Martin doon under
[/quote]

Sorry, early morning finger problems - weeing should have read as "seeing". Now why did the spell checker not pick up that error  >>:-(

Martin doon under
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Proteus

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2008, 09:39:49 PM »


The drawings show the location of the gas turbine engines , gearboxes, exhausts etc,
Martin doon under




I did not think the boat Bluebird was building had Gas turbines? or are we talking about Two different boats ? :D

fredy
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Martin13

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2008, 06:54:37 AM »


The drawings show the location of the gas turbine engines , gearboxes, exhausts etc,
Martin doon under




I did not think the boat Bluebird was building had Gas turbines? or are we talking about Two different boats ? :D

fredy

Sorry Proteus,

Yes, I was actually talking about my boat HMS Brave Borderer. apologies for the confusion :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

Martin doon under
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Proteus

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2008, 07:18:10 AM »

Yea no problem  Martin , I was just a bit confused (doesent take a lot with me). I kept reading the topic and thought I was missing something, it was as much for you than  me that I posted. no need to apologise

fredy
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John W E

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2008, 08:59:28 AM »

Hi there Proteus I admit I am as guilty as Martin for side-tracking the topic  :D :D problem is Martin is in the process of a build, and, I am trying to persuade him  to put his build on the Forum.

Come on Martin, let us all see your pics - its a blinking good build of yours.

aye
john e
bluebird
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Martin13

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2008, 09:38:45 AM »


Come on Martin, let us all see your pics - its a blinking good build of yours.

aye
john e
bluebird

My god your persistent :P

It's coming, one more day for work then I will set about posting my build.......although spending time sanding my recent attempt at fibreglassing may be the order of the day :(

Martin doon under
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Stavros

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2008, 09:48:38 PM »

Bluebird are you going to varnish that wonderfull deck planking

Stavros
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John W E

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2008, 09:46:26 AM »

hi there, Sadly to say, the deck planking is either going to be a grey or a yellow, depending on which era I build the boat at.

Early on in World War II, some of these boats had bright yellow'ish deck and then later on in hostilities - they modify them to 'just grey' because these Rescue Launches became targets for not only the enemy but BOTH SIDES  :o

aye
John e
bluebird
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Martin13

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2008, 11:38:49 PM »

G'Day John,

2 Questions,

Rubbing strake - was this timber of plastic - now if I read the photo's correct, did you pin the strake then glued or the other way around - was this to protect the paint - maybe I am just off the track.

Q2. Prop shaft support - probably got this wrong too - but if I read it right -the outer sleeve, then another to slide inside, then another again, solder, then fit shaft, all of which then fit into "P" bracket  ??? ???
I thought that the bronze bush at the end of the tube supported the shaft beyond the "P" bracket - why all the sleeves, or I'm reading this wrong too :embarrassed:

I still think it a shame to paint over the Mahogany - what a beautiful piece of planking, maybe one day when I grow up, I can do it too...

Martin doon under
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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2008, 09:17:37 AM »

Aye aye there Martin doon under

Rubbing strake - was this timber of plastic - now if I read the photo's correct, did you pin the strake then glued or the other way around - was this to protect the paint - maybe I am just off the track.

The rubbing strakes were 1/8 x 1/8 inch Obechi timber - I first held the strake in place with Superglue and then pinned it.   To protect the paint was one of the minor jobs it does; the main function though is to protect the joint between the deck and the hull side.

 O0

Prop shaft support - probably got this wrong too - but if I read it right -the outer sleeve, then another to slide inside, then another again, solder, then fit shaft, all of which then fit into "P" bracket   
I thought that the bronze bush at the end of the tube supported the shaft beyond the "P" bracket - why all the sleeves?


The 'P' bracket is the bush which is next to the propeller, so, this 'P' bracket takes a percentage of the thrust between the propeller and the stern tube bush.

The reason for all the sleeves is; it is an alternative method of making a 'P' bracket, and, it is for those who do not have the facility to machine one of these on a lathe; for those who do have a lathe - they could produce one of these from a suitable piece of say bronze or brass material.

Hope this helps; if it still needs any clarification, please give me a yell  O0 :D :)

aye
John e
Bluebird
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Martin13

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2008, 09:38:14 AM »

Aye aye there Martin doon under

 O0

The reason for all the sleeves is; it is an alternative method of making a 'P' bracket,

Hope this helps; if it still needs any clarification, please give me a yell  O0 :D :)

aye
John e
Bluebird

Ahhhh......The penny has dropped... O0 O0 O0

Martin doon under
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Martin13

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2008, 02:31:57 PM »

Gee, that Aussie 50 dollar note can't be worth much in the UK? {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)

Question-1 - Re your intermediate stringers -
Your model is about 39" long and I forgot the beam. I have noticed that you have four stringers between the keel and chine. My guess is that by having the stringers closer together, there is less likelihood of hollows in the hull - Am I on the right track?

My build of Brave Borderer 1:16 scale being 72" long and beam of 18", how many stringers would you have placed between the keel and chine - I have three, and now realise it would have been better to install more as I have discovered hollows whilst sanding the glass.

Question-2 Planking
I noticed that when you planked the second layer that you started on the side first then did the bottom so that the end grain of the planks were not facing down. Unfortunately, on my model, I did it the other way around - bottom then side. Is this critical or will the Polyester resin seal the end grain? :-\ :-\

Martin doon under
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John W E

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2008, 08:38:24 PM »

Hi Martin and everyone  :)

Question-1 - Re your intermediate stringers -
Your model is about 39" long and I forgot the beam. I have noticed that you have four stringers between the keel and chine. My guess is that by having the stringers closer together, there is less likelihood of hollows in the hull - Am I on the right track?


The beam is roughly 10 1/2 inches.   If you note, the bottom stringers - two of them actually form motor mounts on either side of the keel;  the distance at the widest part of the hull on the bottom is divided roughly equally - into four sections.  This serves three purposes :  As you say prevents hollows and humps as well as adding strength to the build;

Also the more complicated the bottom hull shape is, they help to reproduce the shape - the actual thickness of the stringers (or the dimensions) depend obviously on the size of hull you are building - the larger the hull, the more stringers you would put in.

ooOOooOOooOOooOO

My build of Brave Borderer 1:16 scale being 72" long and beam of 18", how many stringers would you have placed between the keel and chine - I have three, and now realise it would have been better to install more as I have discovered hollows whilst sanding the glass.

Knowing of the complicated shape of the bow, on the Brave Class hull, I would have opted to put at least five stringers in, per side, on the bottom.  However, they would have only been about 3/16 of an inch square and for the sides, I would have gone to about four or five stringers per side.

ooOOooOOooOOooOO

Question-2 Planking
I noticed that when you planked the second layer that you started on the side first then did the bottom so that the end grain of the planks were not facing down. Unfortunately, on my model, I did it the other way around - bottom then side. Is this critical or will the Polyester resin seal the end grain?


On your build it is not critical.   The Polyester will have sealed the end grain.   The drawback of your hull though is that it doesnt have a protective spray rail around the chine, where the Whaleback does.  If we wanted to be truly authentic to a double diagonal build, the planks would have been recessed into a rebate in the chine stringer and I have seen this done on a build before; and when done correctly it looks absolutely beautiful, but, it could be very, very time consuming.

Two pictures attached are what I worked from when I did the planking; and, if you have a close look you may be able to make out the rebate line - these pictures were kindly supplied by CDSC123 - and I am deeply indebted to him as he has helped me a great deal with this build.

Aye
John E
Bluebird
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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2008, 09:22:52 PM »

Wow John worth waiting a fortnight for the cabin, very nice.  O0
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cdsc123

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2008, 07:54:18 PM »

Love the opening sick-bay doors with home-made hinges O0  O0
How are you planning to make the turret domes?
 
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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2008, 08:11:19 PM »

hello there Christian  do you like this one:

PLAN A:

Hopefully, I am going to produce a 'dummy turret' from solid wood; which can be collapsed inwardly.  Onto this, I will construct a framework similar to that of the real turret from plastistrutt 't' section of the correct scale.  Then glue in clear panels of styrene.   

if this fails....

PLAN B:

Produce the gun turret out of solid timber once again; that will become the male and the female will made up of a flat piece of plywood with a hole drilled in it slightly bigger than the turret.  The clear styrene sheet is then 'clamped' onto the plywood and put into the cooking oven and warmed through :-)  when the styrene is nice and soft and pliable the male former is pushed through the hole forming the Dome shape.    That is if it hasnt all melted and ruined cooker  :o :D and then flat styrene stip would be glued on top of the Dome to assimilate the structure.

 :D To be honest with you, Christian, I am dreading this part of the build

aye
john
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cdsc123

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2008, 08:56:54 PM »

I look forward to seeing how you do them, I wimped out with my 1/24th Thornycroft HSL and bought them from Deans Marine but that's not an option for you. I have heard people have used the valve out of old radios though..
What did you think of For Those In Peril?
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John W E

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2008, 01:54:32 PM »

Hi there Christian

Really good shots of the whalebacks plus Fairmile Bs - anybody building a Fairmile B wants to try and get hold of this film for some of the shots - storyline a bit weak - but worth watching for the shots of the craft alone, just as you said. 

I did try and purchase this film on DVD - but couldnt only manage to get the video.     It would be good on DVD because of I would be able to pause it without damaging the film so I could have a good look at the detail etc.

aye
john e
BLUEBIRD
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cdsc123

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Re: Q & A - 63 FOOT RAF AIR SEA RESCUE LAUNCH by Bluebird
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2008, 05:38:01 PM »

Hi John- VMT for the wonderfully clear explanation on how to tackle the turret domes  O0
One question, how thick was the clear PVC sheet? I feel much happier about trying it myself now.   
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