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Author Topic: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird  (Read 77174 times)

John W E

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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #200 on: April 20, 2019, 09:01:32 AM »


hi ya there Nick


If you have a read again the build article which I did for this plan of the Swordsman I believe I explained the majority of things that you are asking about.  Also have a read of other builds in Masterclass and they will furnish you on bits of advice on couplings & etc. but my main advice would be - and it is strongly recommended - that if this is your first build of a model boat, you stick to what it says on the plan =- thus avoiding serious pitfalls.    It has been mentioned on other threads about deviating from plans and their instructions and how they can cause major problems for them who are new to the game.  :-)


John
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JimG

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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #201 on: April 20, 2019, 09:46:20 AM »

Brushless versus Brushed motors?There are a number of pros and cons for each.Brushed tend to be cheaper and are simpler with only two wires and a simpler esc. They do often have a problem with sparking at the brushes which can cause radio interference although less common with 2.4GHz radio, supresser capacitors can be fitted to reduce this. Brushes do wear especially in higher powered motors, racing motors tend to have replaceable brushes because of this. Wear causes the commutator to become dirty increasing the resistance at the brushes causing extra heat and power loss. As they are being used less commercially now there tends to be less variety and different winds to suit different prop sizes.Brushless are inherently more efficient as without the resistance of brushes they lose less power to heat. They do need a special esc but these are now common and simple to use If you want a reversing motor you must make sure you get an esc with reverse, many are for aircraft which do not use reverse. There is a much greater range of brushless motors available with a wider range of windings to suit different props. Often the same size of motor comes in a range of KV settings ( KV is revs per volt) so you can choose one to suit your needs. A scale tug with a large prop will use a low KV motor (500 to 1000) while a fast electric with small diameter prop will need a high KV motor (2000 up).
There are two type of brushless , inrunners or outrunner. The major difference is that an outrunner has the outer casing revolving, tends to be slower revving and give more torque (can turn larger prop). If you are using high power inrunners are easier to cool as the casing does not revolve.If you are using more than one motor then you can use just one esc with brushed but brushless need an esc for each motor.
Jim
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DaveM

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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #202 on: April 20, 2019, 10:08:50 AM »

33? This one will do the job very nicely on a 2S pack https://www.componentshop.co.uk/lc2826-17t-1050kv-leopard-outrunner-brushless-motor.html
Or this one on 3S (11.1v). https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-d2836-11-750kv-brushless-outrunner-motor.html
I have one of these in my 1/12 scale Huntress and it's a cracker. Incidentally either of these motors will fit into the same glass-nylon mount used for the brushed 540 so there's no need to alter any of the ply parts shapes. You can see one of the two grub screws which hold the coupling onto the motor shaft. The other end of the coupling is threaded M4 to match the prop shaft. As for the added complication of a brushless motor installation, the only difference you'll see is that there are three wires from the speed controller as opposed to two. Tricky stuff, eh?  8)
DM
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John W E

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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #203 on: April 20, 2019, 10:25:08 AM »

The Fairy  must be the only  type of model boat you have made  Dave  :}
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DaveM

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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #204 on: April 20, 2019, 10:32:47 AM »

John

You forget the Model Slipway stuff I did.....but I have to confess to an addiction to Fairey Marine powerboats. Liz says I build them at the wrong scale - she'd prefer 12" = 1ft - but I doubt she'd welcome a 31ft boat sitting in the driveway and it would be wasted on the Trent @ 4mph. My friend Scott Pett has had a Huntsman 31 in his garden since about 2009 and he's still not finished renovating it!
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPYwnZ9HOa2TVcPY1cC0PvUCrbhRBQ9n8wP7xrg63ItNuyUEddcHOdCZz4n1JzfEA/photo/AF1QipO4DocVhtarTF5LtFmzfNmcKh6eY9xZuiws9kk-?key=QU9id0p5eF9GMkM1VDhERTkweFVpQnZBLXBKb2RB
Dave M
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DaveM

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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #205 on: April 20, 2019, 01:57:03 PM »

Incidentally either of these motors will fit into the same glass-nylon mount used for the brushed 540 so there's no need to alter any of the ply parts shapes.

Oops! Clanger alert! It's the larger 35mm diameter brushless motors that fit the 540 mount. These 28mm ones fit the 380/400 glass-nylon mounts, so you'd need to alter the top of the keel to cater for that. Sorry-pardon!

DM
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John W E

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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #206 on: April 20, 2019, 03:26:24 PM »


 %) I say old boy, if one sticks to the plan - one has to alter nothing - you didn't have anything to do with the design of that crashing rocket on the moon did you? :-)  that motor didn't work either did it? :-)



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DaveM

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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #207 on: April 20, 2019, 04:32:53 PM »

%) I say old boy, if one sticks to the plan - one has to alter nothing - you didn't have anything to do with the design of that crashing rocket on the moon did you? :-)  that motor didn't work either did it? :-)
Nope, but it wasn't made of plywood and it wasn't brushless either... :P
DM
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John W E

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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #208 on: April 20, 2019, 05:07:24 PM »


hi there, here are two of the best brushless motors you will ever get - even Sir DM will have to agree to this one, especially when the pair of them will fit nicely in a 41 inch Fairy of the Skies and I wonder who has a plan for that sitting on his desk? :-)


John
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SwordsmanDreamer

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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #209 on: April 20, 2019, 09:04:20 PM »

Dear all thank you for the interesting information.


Mind you, I'm am bit puzzled about how asking about couplings and prop shafts etc qualifies as deviating from the plans - unless that was referring to using a motor other than the 540 ?


Best regards


Nick

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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #210 on: May 11, 2019, 09:37:04 PM »

Hello All

So it looks like I need a prop shaft that is threaded on one end, but plain (if that is the right word) on the other end ? (No mention of this in the build notes that i can see - but the pictures appear to show a thread on the inboard end - hard to make out whether the outboard end does or not. What is the "normal" practise (if there is one) ? Dave Milbourn seems to imply that his Huntress has a threaded inboard end ( " The other end of the coupling is threaded M4 to match the prop shaft.") , but the outboard end could be either I imagine. I see that some adverts for props that i have seen mention "dog" style props - presumably some kind of spline arrangement (as oposed to a thread) ? But some say "M4" - so presumably M4 metric -but that could mean threaded, or it could just mean the shaft size alone and therefore not necessarily threaded ? Then I guess there is the issue of the thread direction vis-a-vis the shaft turning direction for steaming ahead (i.e. the risk of the prop undoing itself ) ?

Thanks
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derekwarner

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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #211 on: May 12, 2019, 01:08:48 AM »

Nick....


If the propeller has an M4 internal thread, by convention the terminology for the prop shaft for that end is M4........if the diameter of the shaft were also 4.0 mm, it is termed as 4 mm diameter. You may also need a thin width M4 locknut to lock the propeller


Again by convention the coupling 1/2 side of the shaft [near the motor] would be 4 mm diameter which is mated to a close toleranced [reamed] 4 diameter hole in the coupling half.....


The coupling 1/2 for the motor is naturally to suit the motor shaft


These reamed coupling holes minimize run-out and vibration


The mention of "dog style" usually refers to the coupling type, not the propeller


Left hand + right hand propellers usually refer the directional of rotation of the propellers for twin engined vessels.......but both of will have a right hand tapped internal mounting hole
 %)


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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #212 on: May 12, 2019, 01:50:04 AM »

Nick,

Suggest you have a google around for 4mm / M4 prop shafts -the propshaft is "normally" something like 4mm OD for an M4 thread (etc).  4mm prop tube OD's usually 6 or 8mm (your choice, 90% of the time I'd go for 6mm, and for a cpl of I buy the clamp-on oiler saddle now unless an oiler tube is included).  There are still some folk who wouldn't spend their last 'hapenny unles it were for something "proper" imperial, but it's so outdated I wouldn't bother unless you desperately want. 

I personally hate shafts threaded at both ends.  Back in the day I got on OK with them, but I find the last few years everyone seems to cut the threads so the unthreaded length is significantly shorter than the prop tube now (even when I've ordered custom shafts).  I usually find a spinning thread on a plain bearing generates unecessary vibration and noise, plus, if nuts on both ends inadvertantly tighten, it locks the shaft absolutely solid.  Threads on either end of shafts almost always the usual "lefty loosey, righty tighty".

You can google "Dog Drive" propellers to see if you wish -prevalent in the US, usually only ever seen them on racing boats, and dirt cheap Asian eBay toys here.  "Dog Style" I'd argue isn't directly related to either, but more often seen associated with the propeller end on models.  Not worth the hassle unless youre absorbing serious power usually.
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Re: Q & A - Swordsman A PLAN FOR BEGINNERS by Bluebird
« Reply #213 on: May 12, 2019, 01:19:41 PM »

Hi Nick

I've standardised on the maintenance free Raboesh prop shafts that I get from Cornwall Model Boats. I go for the 15000 rpm ones to be on the safe side. They are the more usual threaded prop end and plain motor end.

Yes, they are more expensive, but they are quality and you don't have to mess around with lubricating with oil/grease, and in the scheme of thing i.e. the total cost of the boat, personally I think it's money well spent.

Cornwall model Boats also do a good range of couplings including a dog-leg one (which may be what you are referring to?) from Robbe.

Chris
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