Topic: Steam Turbine (Read 12255 times)

john54 · « **on:** November 05, 2008, 10:05:06 am »

Hi All
Just spotted a model that might be of interest

E*ay item number 170276723000

Martin (Admin) · « **Reply #1 on:** November 05, 2008, 11:54:01 am »

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170276723000&ru=http://search.ebay.co.uk:80/170276723000_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQfromZR40QQfviZ1

SteamboatPhil · « **Reply #2 on:** November 05, 2008, 12:26:42 pm »

Ooooooohhhhhh !

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #3 on:** November 05, 2008, 01:13:50 pm »

You're right, that is interesting!!

JohnneyBoy · « **Reply #4 on:** November 05, 2008, 01:20:21 pm »

I have always had an interest in steam turbines... Over that last couple of years I have managed to find a couple of books on their construction. Just need a lathe... and time...

kiwimodeller · « **Reply #5 on:** November 05, 2008, 11:23:54 pm »

I will not be bidding, it is a bit far to go for the pickup! Does anybody know if this is a commercially made turbine? It looks well enough made that it could be. I have seen the odd article on building a turbine but this looks professionally done. Thanks, Ian.

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #6 on:** November 06, 2008, 09:23:33 am »

I got the impression from reading it that it was a home made unit and I don't know of a commercially made one but if anyone knows any different I'm sure they will let us know.

I think the biggest challenge with a single stage turbine such as this, which is exhausting straight to atmosphere, will be the quantity of steam it requires. The clue is the 12v battery required to power the boiler blower which seems to indicate they are squeezing every last drop from the boiler.

Very interesting model though and I'd love to have a play with it!

bogstandard · « **Reply #7 on:** November 06, 2008, 11:27:20 am »

That was one of the reasons I didn't carry on with the making of a pair of turbines to fit into a warship. They are very hungry devils, and major problems would have been encountered keeping them supplied with steam for any length of time.

Also, on the one being advertised, if you look carefully, the exhaust comes from the middle of the engine, and is directed straight up. If running it that way, I would think the whole of the rear of the boat wouldn't be able to be seen due to the clouds of steam being produced. The engine is basically designed around one being produced by Jensen, an American company that makes similar steam plants as Mamod.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6dQ5w7ZnToA&feature=related

Here is one being used to power a sort of tank
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=07PBSjExN2Y

All that has happened is that he is gathering the exhaust from the centre and wacking it thru a big pipe. A very inefficient design, but looks and sounds good. Also notice that the tank has a large gear train to take a lot of the loading off the engine and allowing the boiler to still give enough steam to keep it 'on the boil', this isn't really possible in a model boat as the prop revs need to be kept up. Maybe it could be used efficiently in a paddler where the gear drop is significant, but very doubtful efficiency in a model boat unless flash boiler technology is used.

Richard, if and when you come across again, you can have a play with a couple I have built.

John

PT Sideshow · « **Reply #8 on:** November 06, 2008, 11:39:40 am »

http://www.jensensteamengines.com/ here is their site.

Here is their current turbine design that is for sale with boiler and generator.
http://www.jensensteamengines.com/turbine.htm

ian kennedy · « **Reply #9 on:** November 06, 2008, 04:38:00 pm »

For you chaps wanting a steam turbine

take a look at www.forest-classics.co.uk under mini steam and turbine 50

looks OK for larger and more spacious models

Ian

kno3 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 06, 2008, 10:45:55 pm »

Does anyone have experience with the Turbine 50, which I think is made in Germany by Hielscher?
http://www.hielscher-dampfmodelle.de/cms/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=80&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=38
I'd like to know how it performs and it it would be suitable for a scale model of Turbinia or similar.

mogogear · « **Reply #11 on:** November 20, 2008, 04:02:14 am »

Kno3- I too am on a Turbinia kick..it could be my down fall as I am trying to secure the build plans from a chap named Sells who has them supposedly on Traplet.....Three output shafts and 9 props are making my head spin--but I would think you need more RPM that the output is listed for the 50..

There is a WADA steam turbine on Ebay right now.. A Japanese turbine that was designed for trains-- so it has the power... the boiler and its ability to keep up with it is a huge concern of mine, as to keep roughly to scale a 48" model will only be about 4.5" wide

bogstandard · « **Reply #12 on:** November 20, 2008, 07:39:56 am »

All the ones you can buy are basically 'toy' engines. More for show rather than work.

If you need one for serious work, it has to be designed and made to do the job in hand.

I have built two over the last year, and if you have the equipment they are really very easy to make.

As Mogo says, keeping up with their very hungry appetite for steam is the major problem.

I have just made a new vid showing them being put thru their paces using a much larger capacity compressor than was previously used.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Amm89H65IFo

John

kno3 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2008, 10:21:11 pm »

Mo, I had a look at that Wada turbine. Looks interesting.
Seems larger in diameter than the Hielscher turbine, which (for me) is not that good. I like to make small boats

mogogear · « **Reply #14 on:** November 21, 2008, 02:40:03 am »

Hello John!!

The WADA - while not being near as impressive in stature as compared to your proto- models.... can actually do a great deal of wrok

check out the video here of a WADA turbine running in a train, pulling a substantial array of rolling stock in tow...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPinI28rYgo

Now I cannot guarantee that the turbine inside the train is the same WADA turbine on ebay... but it is a pretty simple design... since all this is way above my head- it could only make me smile if , and it could be a big if, that a simple design could actually perform enough to drive the three prop shafts for a 48" Turbinia...with a cross tubed 2.5" x 10" gas fired boiler...Small Bursts of speed might be the only thing I could accomplish and then mild cruising...

but I am still trying to acquire the plans.. it all starts there for me...

I assume n one makes a moulded hull?? that would be too sweet.......

bogstandard · « **Reply #15 on:** November 21, 2008, 08:04:13 am »

Mo,

I am not saying that these turbines wouldn't do a good job at all.

There were a few model steam suppliers that tried to get them into the model boat arena, but unfortunately they were limited by their size, because of steam requirements, so they were only for smaller types of boats.

If you look at the second Wada train vid, have a look at the size of burner they are having to use to keep the boiler on the boil, and how slowly the train went until the turbine got into its power band.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ua09-sHj3kE

If you notice all the steam. A turbine is unlike a standard steam engine, it will quite happily sit there not turning, just venting steam to atmosphere. Notice that when the train was eventually up to full speed, there was a lot less steam being bypassed, the engine was then on the boil and using the steam more efficiently.

Very good luck with your dreams, it will be a long journey, but I am sure you will succeed.

John

Proteus · « **Reply #16 on:** November 21, 2008, 08:22:11 am »

I think it was Fuiji or some thing like that did one some years ago and cheddar had one to experiment with it was all brass with a built in gear box but not very sophisticated, they had to run it on a lengthened Proteus boiler to keep it steaming to get anything out of it, it still was not very good , it was at the time when they where looking for different things to make , they started the Trains soon after.

Proteus

mogogear · « **Reply #17 on:** November 22, 2008, 02:52:40 am »

True observations John. I am really just in the "figuring" part of this concept. I was using no real scientific method other than looking at the enormous amount of cars on that train and comparing that to the boat and calculating a little and using pure dead reckoning for the rest . I did see the mountain of steam escaping from the engine and would hope that by the lighter weight of the boat hull and the ability of the props to spin in the water, even if the hull had not yet made progress could make for a better scenario...and more efficient use of the steam overall.

Mind you, much of this is just applying my feeble brain towards the proposition I could ever get a Turbinia hull built... THEN hopefully to be propelled by an actual turbine. The great work you did on the Capricorn project keeps me very humble about what I could hope to achieve. That turbine of yours is soooooo sweet. Store bought is the best I can do most likely. And I may have to settle for electric powered..

Anyway there are so many variables for my brain to work on while I lay in bed !! Suppose the turbine could do something with the props... and It looked like the WADA train was alcohol fired...I would definitely use a tubed and gas fired horizontal boiler... then there is the problem for me to see how to attach three shafts... and then to have at least two of them turn counter to the rotation to the third..

It makes my head spin and face smile....thanks for playing ball on the thought process...BTW is your arm all mended now and new shop all dialed in?

Proteus · « **Reply #18 on:** November 22, 2008, 03:41:22 am »

shafts are easy look at the poor drawing and also a picture of the Saito turbine I think.

Proteus

bogstandard · « **Reply #19 on:** November 22, 2008, 04:23:22 am »

Mo,

It does take a lot of planning to get a project off the ground, it is not worth diving in and find at the end you can't power it as you want.

Maybe a bit of reverse engineering is called for. Find a suitable power plant, and build a boat to suit.

Just a little mod to Proteus' sketch, this one allows for adjustment between the pitches for prop shafts. You would need to reduce the engine speed before hitting this gearbox.

The shoulder and hand is now under a specialist physio, and we are hoping to get it to 75% of original. The loss of finger grip is permanent. Spinal problems from an old injury is now confining me a lot, so the shop is taking a little longer than was anticipated, but it is about 90% there now, just shelves and tool racks to go in, and is producing when I can get in there. I managed about 3 hours yesterday.
I hope to be fully operational by the new year.

John

mogogear · « **Reply #20 on:** November 24, 2008, 04:48:07 am »

Message to you Mr Bog

mogogear · « **Reply #21 on:** November 24, 2008, 11:56:46 pm »

John--- have you ever thought of parting with that turbine??

bogstandard · « **Reply #22 on:** November 25, 2008, 06:32:02 am »

Mo,

Sorry, the engines I make as prototypes are always destined for my collection, mainly because they are totally unique.

You should know yourself by now how much unique engines are worth, and mine are no exception.

My engines are an investment for the day when I want something special out of life.

In the new year I am making some horizontal paddler engines, after that, I just might look at making a compact, useable turbine (from a standard boiler). It all depends if it is a viable proposition, as internally, it would be from all stainless steel to try to make it last a lot longer, high velocity steam has a tendency to wear thru lesser metals over a period of time. The large proto has shown me the way to go.

John

mogogear · « **Reply #23 on:** November 25, 2008, 04:48:27 pm »

Aye well , after all the splendid work you put into that one( I followed the thread on HEM) and the fun path you let occur as you build I understand completely. I figured the answer could only be the same if not asked...consider my eyes peeled for a turbine about on Ebay UK or some such...

As you so rightly pointed out I will see what turbine falls my way and then design the boat to fit the power plant and drive train that develops... a good long project.....

As it nears here in the US- and likely abroad- have a Happy Thanksgiving Holiday with loved ones close at hand!

ivorthediver · « **Reply #24 on:** November 25, 2008, 07:19:15 pm »

Has anyone heard or seen a steam turbine sound generator that could be used in my MANXMAN model please{:-{

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Author Topic: Steam Turbine (Read 12255 times)

john54

bogstandard

PT Sideshow

ian kennedy

kno3

mogogear

bogstandard

kno3

mogogear

bogstandard

Proteus

mogogear

Proteus

bogstandard

mogogear

mogogear

bogstandard

mogogear

ivorthediver