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[red181]

I just had a thought about my mates problem, and the insurance/CE thing, he used a commercially available "home build" RF module, not one that was already pre assembled, I would assume that the pre build module carries its own seperate CE approval? 

[malcolmfrary]

I just had a thought about my mates problem, and the insurance/CE thing, he used a commercially available "home build" RF module, not one that was already pre assembled, I would assume that the pre build module carries its own seperate CE approval? 

A plug-in, tamper-proof module with CE approval should be OK provided that the particular approval is for the intended use and no modifications that would affect the approval have happened.  A sticker that claims approval might just as easily have an approval number for the colour fastness of the case.  With some (possibly oriental) manufacturers, something like this might actually happen.  We, as a rule, cannot read their writing.  They, quite often, regard the symbols on the stickers as a pattern.
This rapidly turns into a minefield.  In the old days of conventional wireless, you more or less had to be a sparky engineer or similar to build it or get it working or keep it working.  Nowadays, its all much more like Lego.  No bad thing, but we are all now using sealed magic boxes and very few know what is going on inside.
The insurance aspect hinges on the idea that there is someone traceable to blame and sue should things go pear shaped - anything not backed by someone qualified to have a good set of excuses for use in court is therefore frowned upon.

[787Eng]

hi all

Did one know that there are some modelling materials that we use regularly that shield 2.4 signals? preventing it from working - e.g. Kevlar - and certain other fibre glass materials interfere with 2.4 .  

Wrong
I think you will find its Carbon Fiber

I would NEVER trust my Models and that includes Turbine powered jets to anything else but 2.4Ghz.  Been on 2.4 for years since the DX6
Remamber: Not even the best radio will prevent problems with a poor installation.

[John W E]

Wrong
I think you will find its Carbon Fiber

I would NEVER trust my Models and that includes Turbine powered jets to anything else but 2.4Ghz.  Been on 2.4 for years since the DX6
Remamber: Not even the best radio will prevent problems with a poor installation.

hi all

it proves a point - some people only read half posts and understand even less -

[red181]

good points malcolm, I never thought of the module having its own ce approval, and it just plugged in. I recently sold a really nice futaba field force six anniversary tx, 35megs, sorry I let it go now it would have been a nice tx on 2.4, and the receivers are cheaper than spektrum

FLJ made a really interesting point a page ago, regarding the cheap chinese 2.4 sets (Which I own!) and the problem with restricted throttle range, I am sure that my cheap hitec 40meg set had a better full throttle range than my turborix set, never put a gps on the boat with both sets to test that, I wonder why that is? Anyway, I stick by my guns and feel a lot safer on 2.4 when others are at a lake sailing, cheap chinese or not , sorry Octo, we have gone miles off the point here, but thanks for starting a very interesting thread

[dodgy geezer]

FLJ made a really interesting point a page ago, regarding the cheap chinese 2.4 sets (Which I own!) and the problem with restricted throttle range, I am sure that my cheap hitec 40meg set had a better full throttle range than my turborix set, never put a gps on the boat with both sets to test that, I wonder why that is?

FLJ may have been thinking about this issue: http://www.giantcod.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2858

I think the problem has gone away now, but some early T4U sets came with the wrong value pots on the sticks, and need a 1k resistor attaching to them to bring back full servo throw....

[Subculture]

With regard to the conversion you are doing, A friend of mine did one recently for a fixed wing flyer, the club he was a member of refused the use of the converted tx as the CE certification became invalid, and he was no longer insured by the governing body of BMFA, and insurance is generally mandatory proof of which needs to be produced prior to flying with virtually all clubs, you might want to warn your friend to check this out if he is a club member to save any embarrassment

I don't belong to any flying clubs or hold any model insurance. I fly in non-designated(but deserted) flying sites, and nothing I fly weighs more than a pound. I find it somewhat strange that rules are this tight when it's quite legal to fly free-flight aeroplanes without any form of control whatsoever.

[Circlip]

Usually chuck and runs are more lightly loaded and fly at a more sedate pace than the screamers. Still no consallation if you're earoled with one though.

  Regards  Ian.

[Subculture]

Neither is a football (and would hurt more I wager) but do you need an insurance policy to play a quick game of five-a-side in the park these days?

I think a lot of these rules and regulations are more aimed at those flying big and heavy models, I don't and never would as I'm only too well aware of how and what can go wrong. My belief is, if you want to go big, build it large enough to get in it and fly the controls in person.

[Circlip]

and nothing I fly weighs more than a pound.

  The weight doesn't really matter.(Not pointing at you Sub, I read the postings). Another bad habit we seem to be adopting from the States (aren't they all) is the "Park Flyer" Some of the aircraft with a conventional prop drive being flow in somewhat "Limited" airspace is bad enough, but the Ducted fan Mini-jets certainly would raise a bruise if yer clouted with one of those.

  An YOU go tell the guy with the pit bull on a string in the other hand he shouldn't be flying in a "Park".  -- and quite a few of these are on 2.4Gigglies.

  Regards Ian.

[John W E]

hi there all

I know this is 'totally off topic' now - but Circlip you should not have mentioned 'chuck 'n run' - can you remember the KeilKraft Club and the KeilKraft Carprice??  they had the timing fuse in the back of the tail which used to light and supposedly (after a certain length of time) would allow the back tail to flip up and bring the glider back down to earth - CANNY CRACK ON THE HEAD with that Caprice I recall    I thought my head had come out of where the sun dont shine.

 

happy days, going back some time!

aye
john e
bluebird

[Circlip]

Get back in the padded room. I TRY to forget "The Golden Age" of pre- X-acto cutters ("Blue Gillettes" broken off at an angle) Swan Morton???? WE had it tough. 

[Mankster]

Has anyone heard of a successful claim on Model insurance. boat or plane? I am surpurised we haven't heard of people claiming ££'s for whiplash and metal trauma after being hit by their mates planes whilst strolling innocently in a park....

[Circlip]

Too busy sliding on wet floors and falling down climbing up ladders 

[Colin Bishop]

I remember seeing reports of accidents back in the 70s when everyone was on 27 moggies. There was at least one fatality from an out of control plane and on another occasion one went right through a car door!

Colin

[Subculture]

  The weight doesn't really matter.

Well if I chuck a brick at you, it's going to hurt a lot more than, say a wet dishcloth, agreed?

A few years ago I remember an incident at a flying club in Hertfordshire that made the London region news. This was a very well managed club, yet a young lad whose Father had taken him to the club as a spectator got killed when, of all people, the club safety officers aeroplane veered out of control and hit the boy in the head.

This is why I steer clear of heavy aeroplanes- they can be lethal if out of control, a 200-300 gram foam aeroplane flying at 20-30 mph might smart, but you would likely live to fight another day.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7996/is_1999_Nov_3/ai_n36010242/?tag=rel.res1

[red181]

sorry subculture, you are talking nonsense, lets hope on your deserted field,your light aircraft does not fly through the face of an innocent dog walker, or go out of control and over the fence into the windscreen of an on coming car, does not matter how light, I witnessed a contra  rotating small light helicopter suffer from a receiver fault, and it hit someone on the back of the head with a 9  stich gash.

Also I have insurance on all my models, If you maim someone I hope you can live with yourself, Moderated

Even if you disagree with a comment it does not justify such a rude reply.  I don't care what your own experience is it does not mean you have to be offensive.

[Mankster]

It think you have missed Subcultures point entirely. I think he was simply stating that a smaller lighter model will cause less damage than a heavier model.

Also I have insurance on all my models, If you maim someone I hope you can live with yourself,

So a heavier models is going to cause more damage to someone and all the insurance in the world will not stop that from happening. So one will have to live with that insurance or not.


Where insurance is not required by law (eg motor insurance), or a requirement (to fly at a club) it will  depend on your assessment of risk if you want to purchase any form of insurance.

I contend that innocent dog walkers dog you mention, is a far more dangerous and unpredictable weapon (almost certainly not insured) than a sail boat (have you got model boat insurance?). How many people have personal liability insurance just in case they step on someone with their stilettos and breaks some ones toe. Or spills ones hot coffee all over a child whilst walking out of Starbucks. How many cyclists have insurance to cover the pedestrian they crash into.
Anyways, you'll probably need prove your radio gear and aircraft have been maintained and are airworthy before any successful substantial claim on insurance. Never mind evidence that your eyesight is up to scratch, your proficient to be flying such a model and took all the necessary steps to warn and protect the public (fenced off your flying area and erected signs warning of the flying hazard).
I ask again, has anyone heard of a successful substantial claim on model insurance?

[vintagent]

Yes mankster, I have.  Purely as a bystander, I witnessed a pylon racer go full tilt into a rather sweet mahogany dnighy at Two Tree Island. It went in one side and came out tother as a missile and buried itself fully in the Thames mud.
A few weeks later I noticed the dinghy, same place , same mooring bouy, looking rather splendid and a gathering of folks around it, with the owner beaming from ear to ear because the MAP insurance had virtually paid for a new dinghy by the time the thing was repaired and revarnished, including the damage already on it from another unrelated incident!  In fact the owner was actually thanking the flyer who was breathing a sigh of relief!
So, it can work.

But let's not get all soft and H&S-ey about life, please. It has to be risky or it is NOTHING.
Regards,
Vintagent

[Colin Bishop]

I ask again, has anyone heard of a successfully substantial claim on model insurance?

Yes, there were some reported instances with the MPBA insurance a few years back but I don't remember the details. I think one was something to do with a racing boat going out of control and running up the bank but I could be wrong.

Also, last year at Beale Park I saw a hovercraft run over, demolish and sink a corvette although I think that one was settled 'out of court'. It is surprising both how quickly things can happen and how much damage can be done.

Colin

[Subculture]

The story about your friend with his heli kind of reinforces my point- the chap he hit lived to tell the tale, if it had been a 60 size chopper he would have lost half his head!

Also as I said before- what about free flight aeroplanes?

Plus, from what I have read about these policies, they only cover human error. If something goes wrong with the gear then you could find the insurance doesn't cover you.

I'm not condoning operating models without insurance, I am stating that I do and why.

[red181]

having read my prev post again, the reply was strong, which is out of character for me, and I apologise to subculture for that. I am not saying insurance is mandatory, but having a friend who was nearly blinded this year by an accident with 250 size heli, which isn't that big, it was a bit close to home, If the accident was by a 3rd party, and not by himself, then liability cover would have provided financial compensation for injury claim, and so on. I have also flown in a regular indoor flying meet, with "foamie" planes, and micro helis. Generally, flying clubs ( not just some mates getting together in a hall or on a field) provide the first 3 visits covered by the club insurance, then you have to be a member of something like BMFA (British Model Flying Association). This governing body has strict guidelines to be adhered to, which come back to the previous points of invalidating CE approval by dabbling with your TX etc. If you "guest" fly at other events, BMFA insurance cover is mandatory to provide 3rd party liability cover to others, their belongings, and the venue you are flying in. I see this as showing your other modellers respect, we think nothing of spending £30 on batteries, or something else, but squirm about spending less for 12 months insurance cover.

I have insurance on all my boats for the same reasons, its my choice, not mandatory, but if an accident happens and someone sues me, I have cover, oh and we where not talking about sailboats, but aero models.