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[RaaArtyGunner]

G'day

Your first sentence is not correct.

Australia's CMF was not allowed to serve out Australia or its Territories however, this as changed during to WW2 to allow our CMF to fight in the Pacfic.

There are other mistakes in your arugement.

Cheers
Bill

Here we go again.
[color=purple]"Although the Defence Act required men to undergo training with the militia, it specified that no Australian (including members of the regular military forces) could be compelled to serve overseas".    [/color]

[Patternmaker]

Here we go again, if regulars were so superior to national servicemen why was I and many others from 3 para recalled by AER to fight in the Suez war 1956 to regain the Canal, the reason being there were not sufficient regulars with combat training and experience to do the job.

This also applied to Korea, remember the Glorious Gloucestershire regiment and the battle of the Imjin River supported by the Royal Artillery many
of the troops were national service reservists

If there are any regulars of all the services who have posted comments on this topic have actually fought in campaigns in the 50s I would very much like to know of your experiences.
 

[BoatyBoy]

Here we go again, part timers thinking they can do the job 

[sweeper]

Here we go again, part timers thinking they can do the job 

Hardly. Consider that reserve forces are (sorry were) trained to the same standards as the regulars.
I served with regulars and have a great respect for many of them. Most of our lads were either ex-regular or ex-national service guys. The "reserve forces only" types ( like me) were just coming into being because national service had finished and that supply of manpower had dried up. Add to that the simple fact that the Goverment rules on who could join reserve forces had to be altered so that technical people in certain occupations could be used to replace the previous supply of manpower. I actually had to wait for about six months before the rules changed and was told by my Commander (L) that the old idea of training any occupation into what he needed was thankfully over.
I would think that any rational person would accept the fact that in times of emergency any trained manpower is vital - regardless of whether or not they do it full time or part time.
I'm thankful that in my service I never once ran into any biased opinions such as have been expressed on this thread. Most of the lads looked on us perhaps as a bit of a novelty at times but at the end of the day we were all (literally) in the same boat and subject to exactly the same QR&AI.

[Jimmy James]

I don't know how relvent this is to this thread but we somehow have got on to the subject of the Apprentice. At sea we call them Cadets The Marine Survey Company I worked for,... Years ago started training Deck and Engineering Officer Cadets Both Male and Female mainly at first in selfdefence as we couldn't get Bridge officers  with the high degree of ship handling skills required to do the job  Most of the Kids stayed with it and got their Tickets (4 year apprenticeship + College time and then exam's)...Some are still working for the company including a now married couple (Engineer & Mate) who often sail togeather .... The company also Train's Marine Surveyors and underwater E/R 's and the fitters in the various workshops and--- take on college students for work experience ---Most of these Kids are keen to learn but even after leaving college with their degree's are woefully ignorant of things in the real world----Shipping Company's have almost allways trained cadets (Some I must say because cadets ware cheaper to employ in the old days than seamen) The only problem being that this country (even though being an island and dependent on ships and seaman) has treated it's seamen and the industry so badly that British ships and Men are going the way of the Dinosore....I suppose the point of this ramble is that you have to get recruits from somewhere and some of the best training you can get is on the job training  I've never yet met a good seaman who learned his trade out of a book or from a vidio or computer game {:-{the only way is to get on deck and get your hands dirty
Freebooter

[BoatyBoy]

Hardly. Consider that reserve forces are (sorry were) trained to the same standards as the regulars.

Yes, that's what they all say 

[Patternmaker]

Here we go again, part timers thinking they can do the job 

What I asked for (quote If there are any regulars of all the services who have posted comments on this topic have actually fought in campaigns in the 50s I would very much like to know of your experiences.)

Not insulting comments.
 

[Peterm]

I did 22 years as a regular,  including several tours of active service in the 50`s.   I worked, and fought, alongside some excellent National Service men.   As with everything, don`t tar them all with the same brush.   Pete

[Patternmaker]

Thanks for your sensible comment Pete

[BoatyBoy]

Hey, it's only a message board, not real life ya know. A sense of perspective (and humour) would be a breath of fresh air 

[BrianCartwright]

Er, Boatyboy,this is real life but not as we know it,or perhaps I should get out more,or perhaps we both should get out more.

[BoatyBoy]

No, in a very true sense this isn't real life, well it's not mine anyway.

My wife says I get out too much already 

[Patternmaker]

No, in a very true sense this isn't real life, well it's not mine anyway.quote)






It is real life when you had seen your mates blown to pieces; I myself was wounded and did not think it was at all humorous. 

[DickyD]

Hey, it's only a message board, not real life ya know. A sense of perspective (and humour) would be a breath of fresh air 

Having a go at a lot of people who have fought and given their lives so that you can have the freedom to insult them is not what we would regard as humour, and when you are old enough you will learn about perspective.

[Patternmaker]

Dicky, well said I couldn't have put it any better myself, trying to find the words not to enter in a slanging match with a certain member.

[regiment]

i served in the RAF 22 years   met plenty of ns men  most of them were as good as the regulars some were even better  end of  topic regiment 

[derekwarner]

mmmmm ....tomorrow is ANZAC day here in OZ & Kiwi ...so lest we forget....Derek

[BoatyBoy]

hey dicky

a. how old am I?
b. where was I having a go at anyone?

seems like anyone who has a different view from the messageboard clique is attacked, nice one gang

[DickyD]

hey dicky

a. how old am I?
b. where was I having a go at anyone?

seems like anyone who has a different view from the messageboard clique is attacked, nice one gang

I would say you are in  your late teens or twenties but your memory is going already.

[RaaArtyGunner]

Ah,  look into my eyes he said you are now feeling sleepy,    repeat after me I...................................... 

[BoatyBoy]

Close dicky mate (I wish), just a few decades out 

[Bryan Young]

Looking back at "National Service" days....not mine, just the time.
At my age then I would have been in the bracket for the almost last of them. But as I wanted a career at sea, and was doing a pre-sea cadet stint I presume I was "ignored" ......but when I eventually joined a ship I was surprised how many of the junior engineers had elected to join the MN rather than being conscripted. I guess it wasn't all that surprising that when conscirption ended there was a big shortage of junior engineers within the MN. BY.

[Patternmaker]

I asked the question if there are any regulars of all the services who have posted comments on this topic have actually fought in campaigns in the 50s I would very much like to know of your experiences.

Only 1 would has answered the question so to close this topic If anyone is interested here are my experiences as a National serviceman.

Called up March 1953 aged 20, I was deferred for 2 years working on secret work for MOD as a patternmaker.

After basic training and para training I was posted to Egypt at Tel el Kebir on active service for 22 months, de-mobbed March 1955.

Recalled by AER as reservist October 1956 for Suez Crisis took off from Stansted to Nicosia stopped at Luga in Malta to refuel, (in flight meals provided by a MBM member Corporal with 22 years service in RAF)

600 paras of 3 battalion left Nicosia at 0500 hours on 5th November in Hastings and Valletta aircraft with fighter escort, we arrived at the DZ El Gamil airstrip at 0715, I was in the first plane our gear was dropped in containers because we had to jump from 500ft as the airfield was only 1 mile long and ½ mile wide surrounded by water on both sides. Luckily the Egyptians had placed oil drums on the airstrip which gave us some cover.

We lost 3 men later in the day Private Barnett, Private Bates, &
Private Sumners, my mate Corporal Jim Wood died of his wounds the next day and is buried in a military cemetery in Nicosia, in total 23 killed on that day I was hit in my right elbow from a ricochet thankfully not serious attended by a medic, field dressings shot of morphine and back in action. 70 Egyptians soldiers were killed and hundreds taken prisoner that day, most of them armed with AK47s

On 23rd November the UN ordered a ceasefire, had we been allowed to finish the job the Canal would never have blocked and there would not have been petrol rationing in the UK.

We returned home a forgotten army because of the political scandal which forced Anthony Eden to resign as PM.

We were given one concession, we would not have to undergo any more AER training but were still eligible for call up to the age of 45

The powers that be decided to give us medals in 2003

   
 

[regiment]

 WHAT A VERY GOOD ANSWER A FEW NOSES RUBBED IN THE ?????  THANKS FOR THE MENTION IN DESPATCHES     (REGIMENT  ) 

[Nordsee]

[quote author=tigertiger link=topic=18927

As for professionalism and training levels, this was always a compliant of the regulars. But not all national service men went to front line units. Many were REMFs.



Your reference to REMFs is very offensive to me personally and the next of kin of all those who were killed in Suez and Korea, many of 3 para who served in Operation Musketeer were national servicemen called up on reserve as we had previously served in Egypt on active service. Our training and commitment was no different to regulars Lt Col Paul Crook commander in chief said he preferred national servicemen with combat experience. 

I was called up on March 16th, Basic training at Oswestry (Royal Artillery) Applied for Para Training. was accepted and Passed ! ( No mean feat, ask anyone who did it!) On the 5th November did my first Service drop, Suez. I was 19 and 10 days. Try that with a 19 year old today. Many of my mates were NS. We did as we were told, because our Sergeant had jumped into Operation Varsity in WW !! So he knew what he was on about. We were S--t scared of him but respected him as well, that was our Discipline! I still have Nightmares.About that and Cyprus which followed