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Author Topic: RTR submarine  (Read 23204 times)

das boot

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2009, 04:20:17 pm »

An interesting post this...I'll add my two bob's worth if I may?

Model subs, like any sort of model boat, are only as expensive as you wish them to be....to build a half decent surface boat will cost you what you want to spend on it. You want to build an all singing, all dancing warship with rotating deck guns, working lights, sound effects, and all the stuff that modellers like to put on their boats? I'll bet any of you that you can do it for well less than £100(excluding radio) My Tamiya Missouri cost me about £40, I think it was...it had rotating deck guns(a very simple modification using only a couple of bits of brass wire and a piece of plastic sheet)sound effects(dead easy, all you need is a small Mp3player and a small speaker under the deck...the Mp3 player I already had and the speaker came from a defunct radio)working lights(a couple of tiny leds I removed from an old tx and a battery case). Add to that the cost of a second hand 3-4 channel radio, two motors, couple of propshafts(brass wire inside brass tube)use the kit propellors, and you'll have plenty of change out of your £100 to go buy yourself a pint.

You want to build a nice fancy static diving submarine? No problems..apply the same rules as above. A Trumpeter Seawolf kit will cost you all of £20 odd, you don't need fancy acrylic tube for the WTC when there's plenty of plastic drainpipe tubing to be found in any skip you pass, and end caps can be bought from one or two of the lads on here, or(despite what people on here said about them)use coffee jar lids...with an application of silicone sealant they work a treat. Diving systems...now we need to spend some money. A second hand screenwash pump from a breakers yard will set you back all of a couple of quid, the ballast tank itself need be no more technical than a fizzy drink bottle(you fall over those as soon as you step out your front gate)and a few inches of tubing(which you would have got with the screenwash pump if you'd have asked nicely)
The technical bits...well, a second hand 4-channel radio will be more than sufficent, two microswitches for forward/astern and the same for the pump control...(let's call that £15 from ebay)you don't need fancy depth controllers, just learn to control it with your thumb....what else is there?

You don't need a workshop the size of an aircraft hangar, stuffed to bursting point with all the latest tools to make a working r/c model submarine, neither do you need a wallet the size of an Arab sheik's (I have neither, and I'll put money on the fact that any of the best model submariners in the country have either)so that's put that to bed nicely.

Some of the sub kits available are expensive, I'll agree....but then so are some of the surface boat kits. Take a look at the price of the top of range Deans Marine warship kit....frightening, isn't it? Take a look at the price of the Sheerline Akula sub kit...frightening, is'nt it? But...comparable! By the time you've shelled out the cost of a Deans marine warship kit and all the radio gear and electronics, by the time you've shelled out the cost of a Sheerline Akula and all the radio gear and electronics, I'll bet you there won't be more than a few quid difference in the two.

Back when I had my Engel Patrick Henry, my total outlay then was way over the £1000 mark, probably half as much again(and that was in the early '80's)the reason being that most of the stuff in that boat had to be designed and built for it, as nothing was readily available then as it is now. But you ask any of the guys who built and owned some of the big surface warships that turned up at the shows we used to go to, and cost was comparable even then.

My point is this...if you are in the fortunate postion of having a bottomless wallet you can own and operate the best that there is in model submarines, and the same goes for surface boats. If, like the majority of us on here, you have to go to work to pay your household bills, run the car, and still keep your marriage intact, then you won't have a bottomless wallet to play model boats with. The whole of the r/c hobby, be it boats, airplanes, helicopters, robots or cars is wholly dependant on money...your money. You can only spend what you have available to spend, so spend it wisely, and you can sail an r/c sub without fearing the knock on the door as the man comes to repossess your car/house/wife/whatever.



Rich



















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Jumper

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2009, 12:41:57 pm »

As said - an interesting thread.  I know nothing about RC subs but it is something I would be looking to get into. 

Now if you could supply the telephone number of the guy who repossesses the wife - I will have more dosh to play with!!!!!

Yours Aye

Jumper
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HMS Invisible

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2009, 12:55:49 pm »

To counter any myth before it gets out of hand,submarine models and their parts need not be expensive.

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Wasyl

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2009, 01:18:07 pm »

There only expensive if you don,t have enough money, {:-{

Wullie
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HMS Invisible

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2009, 01:24:12 pm »

How poor do you have to be if you can't afford a watertight box and a few planks of wood?

Just for you,Wullie! www.modelboats.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=29831
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snowwolflair

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2009, 01:34:54 pm »

The MOD thinks this is such a good idea they are ordering four. O0
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andygh

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2009, 01:50:04 pm »

I think the point is that although submarine kits aren't necessarily more expensive than their surface equivalents, there aren't many (if any) cheap/ low end model sub kits available like those you get with other types of boats.
If you're willing to scratchbuild or do one of the cheap conversions fair enough but many people like the safety and ease of a complete kit I guess.
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HMS Invisible

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2009, 02:19:51 pm »

There is fleabay: presently a complete 6 foot Darnell type 21 uboatl kit ,umpteen highly detailed 4 foot Revell Gato's and 3 foot long VII U-boats for about £40.
On the internet,there are point of contact websites for organisations like the Subcommittee,the Association of Model Submariners  is the personal model submarine websites which list commercial kit suppliers. (Mankster's site) or http://www.rc-sub.com/

There are enough model submarine kits about but they are stealthy.You won't find them if you don't look or don't ask.
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Wasyl

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2009, 02:27:46 pm »

25 posts and you,re telling us how to suck eggs, <*< <*<

wullie
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Subculture

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2009, 02:48:09 pm »

Microgyros is very qualified to comment. Click on his website to find out.
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Desi

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2009, 03:14:53 pm »

Hi Guys,
If you want a submarine.... then just get a good set of plans and build it from scratch. My U141 (earlier post) came after I looked at
the astronomical costs of buying a GRP hull, shipping etc and ended up building a one off model, that I think looks and performs great. A submarine hull is long and tedious to build, putting in the slots, grates etc  however it can be done... coming from a guy who has built O gauge trains in brass.
There are a few extra bits when it comes to the electronics... that is what makes submarines more fascinating!

Take up the challenge, and just keep with it
Cheers

Desi from Toronto
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andygh

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2009, 03:32:37 pm »

Quote
25 posts and you,re telling us how to suck eggs,


Quality not quantity is what counts  :-))
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2009, 04:40:30 pm »


Scratch build a submarine?
 Have a read of:  http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Builds/U789/1ndex.htm
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HMS Invisible

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2009, 05:04:41 pm »

Bill Thomas? He copied Aquadeep ok2

Andy,quality not quantity isn't quite the truth.I'm just semi-literate and rubbish with a camera.I write no more than a few paragraphs and a diagram or two for each product.
One client,to my amusement, asked for the instructions.He eventually produced five A4 pages of small type which I doubt customers bother to read.I haven't managed it yet. :embarrassed:

My suggestion of turning subs out of wooden planks was quite genuine because it's fun(for a while).I've done enough that way for the novelty to wear off so it is not quite telling folk how to suck eggs.
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andygh

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2009, 05:28:21 pm »

Quote
Andy,quality not quantity isn't quite the truth

I wasn't talking exclusively about you fella  8).
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Sub driver

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2009, 05:55:04 pm »

Hi.

I have just read the posts above , very interesting.

I have quite a few model subs, some scratch built some modified from commercial kits, Some exhibition quality.  

You can build a working model sub quite cheeply PROVIDING you read / digest and are prepared to put in some work yourself and ASK people How they do it and above all LEARN.

It is not rocket science, a simple home built static dive system can be built for a max of £15.00.

I kid you not, no fancy piston tanks just a fixed wall ballast tank and a car tyre compressor (12v) and a blow valve ( a second hand car tyre valve + nothing more and a few pieces of tubing and a couple of car windscreen washer non return valves)

You can make some of the electronic bits yourself just by reading some of the old boat mags out there.

I think the problem is as has previously been said that some people are not prepared to BUILD anything anymore.
and as such those people WILL have to pay for someone else's expertise to get a working model.

IF you can scratch build a ship hull then a sub hull is no different.

Regards Sub.



  
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Wasyl

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2009, 06:57:08 pm »

Oops,2 to many :embarrassed:drat,it was one now there,s none, <:( <:(

Wullie
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andygh

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2009, 07:54:17 pm »

Quote
Hi.

I have just read the posts above , very interesting.

I have quite a few model subs, some scratch built some modified from commercial kits, Some exhibition quality. 

You can build a working model sub quite cheeply PROVIDING you read / digest and are prepared to put in some work yourself and ASK people How they do it and above all LEARN.

It is not rocket science, a simple home built static dive system can be built for a max of £15.00.

I kid you not, no fancy piston tanks just a fixed wall ballast tank and a car tyre compressor (12v) and a blow valve ( a second hand car tyre valve + nothing more and a few pieces of tubing and a couple of car windscreen washer non return valves)

You can make some of the electronic bits yourself just by reading some of the old boat mags out there.

I think the problem is as has previously been said that some people are not prepared to BUILD anything anymore.
and as such those people WILL have to pay for someone else's expertise to get a working model.

IF you can scratch build a ship hull then a sub hull is no different.

Regards Sub.


How about a masterclass build along these lines then, anybody fancy doing one for us submarine virgins?   :kiss:
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Mankster

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2009, 07:58:39 pm »

Oops,2 to many :embarrassed:drat,it was one now there,s none, <:( <:(

Wullie

Before your post disappeared I was going to point out that all the costs you listed would have been the same for any twin engined scale surface craft.

For those after £150 scale RTR submarines, I fear it wont happen anytime soon. Gaurpner have started selling ARTR scale boats and one of the smallest in the range a 2 channel PT boat at about 28" cost the best part of £450, and you'll still need a radio. A new retailer of scale rc subs is Ark Model from the China. They sell some of the cheapest kits going. If it could be done for less allowing them to shift a bucketload, those clever chaps would have done it.  They will also sell ARTR versions of their kits for for an addional $150. Thats Chinese labour rates, so you can imagine what a European sourced one would cost.

The cheapest way into this hobby both surface and subsurface is too do some of the work yourself and purchase a kit or separate parts and put it together yourself. I dont think there's much addition cost to building a scale sub over a scale surface vessel after you have account for the necessary extras to waterproof your electronics and make it go up and down.

Wasyl

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2009, 10:24:18 pm »

For the likes of me,who can,t build, that Ark site has some nice looking boats,but i can,t see any prices,The Missouri looks good in fact they all look good,and i like that alu case mm food for thought,

Wullie
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Sub driver

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2009, 03:43:47 pm »

Andygh.

What exactly are you after ?.

I will point you in the right direction, see if you can get hold of  3 copies of Model Boats that will give you just about all the info you and others will need to complete such a project.

The first issue you need to source is an in depth article on HMS Satyre by Paul Cook it is over 2 issues they are July 1994 and September 1994.

This will show you how to do the above mentioned ballast system.

You can make your own " Blow " valve and also modify a Model Boats mag free bilge pump plan article to make a ballast tank cut off switch for a few quid.

I have since refined this system for use in my boats and have done away with the pressurised air tanks as they are not needed as I store the pressurised air in one of the compartments which incorporates the blow valve usually the forward compartment.

For a more modern Modular design but of the same ballast system but doing away with the pressurised air containers in the WTC, get hold of a Model Boats magazine Vol 49 No 581, 2 of  April to 29 April 1999.

In this mag I am on the Cover with my 1/96 scratch built Vanguard, There is also a 4 page centre spread of how I scratch built  the 1/96 scale HMS Vanguard inc the clear Acrylic Dive module. You can see all the parts in the module.

I hope this is of some use, SEE all people have to do is ask !  O0


Regards Sub.   :-)
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hollowhornbear

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2009, 02:19:24 pm »

and just to further this, here is a video of Undine a free plan masquerading as U47 at brockwell cost £50 nax but as i know the builder more like £30.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnDTc5boyZ0
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gyronuts

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2009, 04:49:22 pm »

there is a free plan of a dynamic diving boat in the submarine special. It about 36" . I got a 45" version from ebay and it sails great.
see http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42806976104
It looks so good that I am considering making a new top section as a u boat type 7. bill
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hollowhornbear

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2009, 09:10:39 pm »

Undine and yours Unseen are as good as the same plan with different tops, and it sure does work well. the one in the video is more than 3 years old all wood with tissue and dope covering.
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andygh

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Re: RTR submarine
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2009, 10:40:35 pm »

Sorry it took so long but thanks for that Sub, I'll take a look  :-))
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