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[FullLeatherJacket]

Just when my anger at bankers was subsiding:
Customer in Oz ordered a P98 and was quoted £50GBP, including shipping. He duly transferred £50 from his bank into ours. Fees? Well, he was charged A$22 for the transfer at his end (that's over £13GB) and then we were charged another £2 at our end! Our bank didn't show the charge as a separate item in our account; they just netted the charge off and showed the £48 as the transfer value, so I got a bit tetchy with the customer for trying to pull a flanker................. He then tried to rectify it by sending us the two quid and was told that  was going to cost him about A$25 in fees.
Moral? Use a credit card. Total transaction charge for this deal would have been just over £1GBP.
Ask a banker the time and he'll borrow your watch; tell you that you must put your enquiry in writing, with four separate documents to confirm your identity; keep your watch; add £50 charges to your account for his time, and finally claim on his expenses for a Rolex.
There is  a suitable word somewhere.................
FLJ

O yeah - almost forgot - we wrote off the two quid to experience and will add a bit to our Homepage about Bank Transfers!

[getemuphigh]

There is a suitable word somewhere.................

The words is:
"BANKERS"

[malcolmfrary]

There is a suitable word somewhere.................

The words is:
"BANKERS"

Isn't that rhyming slang?

[PMK]

Yep, Cockney rhyming slang - rhymes with crooks.

[Flying Sparks]

FLJ

Would PayPal or similar not be the best way to do this type of transaction?

Phil.

[The Antipodean]

FLJ, does your company accept those prepaid Debit/Credit cards, i.e. the Visa/Mastercard type giftcards?
I am sure those would be a better option for people who don't actually have bank issued credit or debit cards.

[Roger in France]

TELL ME ABOUT IT!

Because I live in France and my pension is paid in £'s in the UK (my former employer will not do anything to help) I have to transfer significant sums every 2/3 months.

I pay a standard £20 charge to my bank in the UK then my French bank adds variable amounts between 21€ and 30€ to receive the money, often 2 months later and sometimes attempts to charge me twice. I have to watch them like a hawk.

I have asked for a rationale on why the amount charged varies so much and on what it is based. The French bank tells me it relates to when the transaction takes place and what the current rate of exchange is. I have asked them for a schedule and they replied that no schedule exists, I responded by saying that they make it up! They have not replied.

I have written to my Euro MP (in both the UK and France) the UK MEP has never replied the French one tells me he is taking it up but ".....these things take a long time...". Nothing for two years!

Roger in France

[barriew]

Roger,

My understanding is that it is now against EU rules for the banks to charge any fee for currency movements with the EU - and that does include the UK - not just the Eurozone. My daughter has now moved back to the UK after 18 years in France, and transferred several sums of money from Euro to Sterling, all over £1000 and one of 10's of thousands. She paid no charges to either BNP in France or Barclays in the UK. I believe the new rules came in in November 2009. Of course it is impossible to know if she got the correct exchange rate, but there were no transaction fees.

She did receive a letter from BNP announcing the new rules. Maybe you need to prod your French bank again!


Barrie

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

My bank wanted to charge me $35 US to make a direct transfer to Germany...
They also kept wanting more information such as bank address, area codes, phone numbers,...
The German merchant finally said that I had enough information, and stopped messaging me.

I never got the plans that I had intended to buy from him...

Many people shy away from paypal because of fees, I have still found it the
easiest way to make direct transactions. Credit cards are also painless for the buyer, but
I have no idea what the fees are to the seller to maintain an account to make such transactions.

 

[Roger in France]

Barrie,

Believe you me, I have prodded and continue to prod!

The latest answer is that the charges are not transaction fees but "facility fees"!

Roger in France

[Peter Fitness]

Banks!!! They seem to be the same everywhere. No wonder some people keep their money in a tin buried in the back yard.

Dave (FLJ) is right about credit cards for foreign transactions, only a small "currency conversion" charge ( as my bank calls it), plus you get arguably the most favourable rate of exchange. Pay Pal is the best, in my opinion, but not all traders use it.

Peter.

[derekwarner]

I needed to transfer 610 EURO from Australia to JMC in France ...[for my JMC3H steam engine] alas he did not accept PAYPAL or credit card....only a telegraphic TFX to his Banque Populaire - La Ferte Alias France

Went to my local Credit Union in Wollongong "yes we can do it via American Express for $31 AUD" ....& I ask how long will the transfer take? ....the response is "its electronic...should be quick" so I withdraw the equivalent of 610 EURO + $31AUD from my account

My funds are now in the Credit Unions account .....they spool up [24 hours later] to American Express in Sydney
My funds are now in the American Express  Sydney account .....they spool up [24 hours later] to American Express in London
My funds are now in the American Express  London account .....they spool up [24 hours later] to American Express in Paris
My funds are now in the American Express Paris account  .....they spool up [24 hours later] to Banque Populaire - La Ferte Alias France
My funds are now in the Banque Populaire .....they spool up [24 hours later] & TFX my funds to the account of JMC

Simple...every one of the players had my 610 EURO + $31AUD on the short term money market each for 24 hours.... ...I am saying to JMC....should be in your account ...left Australia electronically 6 days ago   - Derek

[Martin13]

Bank transfers/Bank drafts etc are costly here in Oz.

Don't worry FLJ as with my last order, when completed I will pay by credit card over the phone - safe, efficient and least amount of bank charges applied..

Martin doon under

[dougal99]

I don't know what you are all on about. My lovely bank has just written to me saying that I'm such a good customer they are increasing my interest by, wait for it, 0.2%.  Iwas so overwhelmed I rushed out and bought a lollipop in celebration. Mind you that cost me more than the extra interest.


Bankers and lawyers 

[essex2visuvesi]

€26.50 charge to send 50 pounds from Finland to the UK 

[FullLeatherJacket]

We do accept credit and debit cards - it's all but impossible to run a mail-order retail business these days if you don't.  The commission on the former varies from company to company; ours is around 2% of the transaction value, with the buyer paying no charge. We prefer debit cards (except for very small transactions) as they bear a fixed fee of around 22p, irrespective of the value of the deal. Again, the buyer pays no transaction charges. However, our card company won't authorise debit cards on non-UK banks.
For international transactions it may seem that Pay Pal is the best option for the buyer, but the seller gets stung for a hefty charge; ours runs at 3.4% plus 20p per transaction. The very worst way is a bank transfer - you've seen examples of the sort of charges which can be incurred by both buyers and sellers - but a lot of folk are reluctant to give their credit card details to a "foreign" trader. Either that or they don't have a credit card.
I've not heard of pre-paid card transactions such as mentioned by The Antipodean, but if it's done via VISA or Mastercard then I can't see any difference between those and the usual transactions, at least as far as the seller is concerned.
I suppose you pays your money and you makes your choice, but I would prefer to pay my  money to as few third parties as possible! I hold a very jaundiced view of banks; thank goodness we don't need their money to run our business.
FLJ

[Boz]

Of no help for relatively small transactions, but great for larger ones and regular international transfers are the currency traders on the internet. I use UK Forex, which has a number of sister companies in different countries. There are others similar.

It works by you activating the transfer on the internet. In 2 mins the phone goes and the deal is confirmed and your money is transferred to the trader's UK bank account. They move it overseas, and it is transferred from their account in the destination country to the recipient, so it is as far as your bank and the recipient bank is concerned it is 2 domestic transfers in the native currency. It avoids international bank transfer fees, currency conversion, commission etc at both ends, and you also get a better rate. The fee is a single fee which is reasonable  and much more transparent.

I would avoid international bank transfers at all costs - the collection of fees and the rubbish exchange rate they give you are outrageous. Internet transfers, credit/debit cards or paypal are the way to go.

On debit cards, how will the card company know if a foreign Visa etc is debit or credit? To them it is a credit card number in the same format and the money is paid in the same way, what is the difference?

[FullLeatherJacket]

On debit cards, how will the card company know if a foreign Visa etc is debit or credit? To them it is a credit card number in the same format and the money is paid in the same way, what is the difference?

The acount number contains some ID and check digits, it seems.
FLJ

[The Antipodean]

The cards I mentioned FLJ are ones we buy at our local stores, works the same as a bank issued card except you buy them in prepaid values $25/$50/$100. The user pays a little over the value of the card and it gets activated on checkout.
Very common here, not sure about overseas though.

[funtimefrankie]

http://www.creditcardanswers.co.uk/digit-algorithm-credit-card-codes-explained.html

easy really

Credit Card Codes Explained
Credit Cards Credit Card Algorithm 16

You may not pay much attention to the 16 digit number on the front of your credit card, but it is by far the most important part of your plastic. Furthermore, the sequence of numbers is absolutely unique, separating you from the millions, or possibly billions of other credit card users in the world. The numbers found on credit cards have a certain amount of internal structure, and share a common numbering scheme. Credit card numbers are a special case of ISO 7812 numbers, which are numbers that contain a single-digit major industry identifier (MII), a six-digit issuer identifier number (IIN), an account number, and a single digit checksum using the Luhn algorithm.

The Luhn Algorithm
The Luhn algorithm or Luhn formula, also known as the "modulus 10" or "mod 10" algorithm, is a simple checksum formula used to validate a variety of identification numbers, such as credit card numbers and Canadian Social Insurance Numbers. It was created by IBM scientist Hans Peter Luhn and described in U.S. in 1954.

The algorithm is in the public domain and is in wide use today. It is not intended to be a cryptographically secure hash function. It was designed to protect against accidental errors, not malicious attacks. Most credit cards and many government identification numbers use the algorithm as a simple method of distinguishing valid numbers from collections of random digits.

Your Card Prefix
The credit card number's prefix is the sequence of digits at the beginning of the number that determine the credit card network to which the number belongs. The first six digits of the credit card number are known as the Bank Identification Number (BIN). These identify the institution that issued the card to the card holder. The rest of the number is allocated by the issuer.

Online merchants may use BIN lookups to help validate transactions. For example, if the credit card's BIN indicates a bank in one country, while the customer's billing address is in another, the transaction may call for extra scrutiny.

[Colin Bishop]

The cards I mentioned FLJ are ones we buy at our local stores, works the same as a bank issued card except you buy them in prepaid values $25/$50/$100. The user pays a little over the value of the card and it gets activated on checkout.
Very common here, not sure about overseas though.

They are the only ones Ryanair accept without charging a booking fee. (because very few people use them of course and it keeps the nominal airfare cost down, just another cheat of course.)

Colin

[roycv]

Hi all, I have just booked a flight with Ryan Air, the wording suggesting that there was no charge if using a debit card.  I did this and suddenly there was an 'Administration fee' added in.
As they are the only airline that goes to a small airport in France you have no choice, overall it was not an expensive flight, but by their calculation less than half the cost of the flight was me!  I personally would rather not know how they calculate their prices.
regards Roy

[malcolmfrary]

Hi all, I have just booked a flight with Ryan Air, the wording suggesting that there was no charge if using a debit card.  I did this and suddenly there was an 'Administration fee' added in.
As they are the only airline that goes to a small airport in France you have no choice, overall it was not an expensive flight, but by their calculation less than half the cost of the flight was me!  I personally would rather not know how they calculate their prices.
regards Roy

Ryanair seem to be the leaders in behaviour that will cause legislation in pricing, hopefully sooner rather than later.  If you get to the airport you first thought of, count yourself lucky.  A few weeks ago they made the news by dumping their passengers on the wrong Canary Island, due to bad weather at the real destination.  They then took off and went to their real destination, empty, leaving their customers to book their own ferry ride to the correct island.  They claimed that they did inform their passengers, their passengers claim otherwise.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8525982.stm

[justboatonic]

We do accept credit and debit cards - it's all but impossible to run a mail-order retail business these days if you don't.  The commission on the former varies from company to company; ours is around 2% of the transaction value, with the buyer paying no charge. We prefer debit cards (except for very small transactions) as they bear a fixed fee of around 22p, irrespective of the value of the deal. Again, the buyer pays no transaction charges. However, our card company won't authorise debit cards on non-UK banks.
For international transactions it may seem that Pay Pal is the best option for the buyer, but the seller gets stung for a hefty charge; ours runs at 3.4% plus 20p per transaction. The very worst way is a bank transfer - you've seen examples of the sort of charges which can be incurred by both buyers and sellers - but a lot of folk are reluctant to give their credit card details to a "foreign" trader. Either that or they don't have a credit card.
I've not heard of pre-paid card transactions such as mentioned by The Antipodean, but if it's done via VISA or Mastercard then I can't see any difference between those and the usual transactions, at least as far as the seller is concerned.
I suppose you pays your money and you makes your choice, but I would prefer to pay my  money to as few third parties as possible! I hold a very jaundiced view of banks; thank goodness we don't need their money to run our business.
FLJ

FLJ, have you considered joining the Federation of Small Businesses? Its £125 to join the first year then £100 thereafter. However, you also get a good discount via FSB for credit card charges.

probably your best option for foreign customers would be if they used their equivalent of a Switch \ Debit card. Switch is being phased out to be replaced by new debit cards issued by Visa and Mastercard. The transaction charges for these will be less than on credit cards.

The pre paid cards are effectively debit cards with cash already 'on' them. These arent credit card in case anyone's interested.

HTH

[FullLeatherJacket]

FLJ, have you considered joining the Federation of Small Businesses? Its £125 to join the first year then £100 thereafter. However, you also get a good discount via FSB for credit card charges.

FSB? We joined two years ago and do all our credit/debit card transactions and insurance through them. A no-brainer for small businesses and the best advice I've ever had from Iain 'Compo Shop' Lewis.......who even now won't let me forget my former profession!!
The choice of how to pay international transactions is, unfortunately, down to the customer. I try to steer them away from expensive ways of doing this but you can only lead a horse to water etc etc.
FLJ