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[The Vanity]

Hi, when I were nobbut a lad of eleven, my Dad went hog wild oneCchristmas spoiling me with an Aerokits 34" crash tender, a Taycol Supermarine Special motor with Taycol coupling and REP single channel radio.  The REP was stolen from my lock-up not that long ago, but I have all the rest.  People tell of finding them in junk shops and restoring them...HA!! I never finished mine!  Here it is, 47 years later, on my secondary bench just beggin' to be finally finished and although it missed my son, it ain't gonna miss my grandson.
So, my questions are:-
1) what modern batteries are up to powering the monster motor?
2) how the heck does one reverse one, because turning the wires over don't work?
3) is there an easy to use modern speed controller that will work with whatever set up you all rush to tell me about?

I am NOT changing that gorgeous old motor. It sounds like a petrol engine!

I would also pay a fair whack for an original Ripmax fittings kit because Dad bought me that too and the same swine nicked that who had the REP.

Please don't talk in terms of DPDT this or that. means absolutely nothing to me.

Regards,
V

[malcolmfrary]

Since any modern battery will out perform its same size equivalent from way back then, batteries should be no problem.
To reverse a field wound motor you have to arrange two supplies- one to the brushes, one to the coil, and reverse one of them.  Permanent magnet motors just supply power to the brushes, and the rotating bit pushes against the magnetism coming from the permanent magnets fitted to the case.  To reverse, you (or, more accurately, the ESC) reverses polarity, and it pushes the opposite way.  With a field wound motor, the fixed coil is in placed of the magnet.  If this is fed via a bridge rectifier, the current through it, and therefore the resulting magnetism, always faces the same way, so a normal ESC can do the normal controlling functions.
Does this one have one or two coils?  Two high enough current diodes will do the job.
One problem might be interference, these motors were not really designed with radio control in mind, and might need some serious suppression.

[kiwimodeller]

Hi, I have a Sea Queen powered by a Taycol Double Special with a 12v 7ah Gell Cell Battery and that will keep it running all day. You could probably get away with a 4ah battery but you will need ballast anyway so might as well use the bigger one. As for reversing and using modern radio control the first thing you need to do is a really good job of supressing the interference from the old brushes. There is a really good article about suppression on the website of Model Solutions of Canada which is one of the sponsor/traders of this website. I have capacitors and resistors between the terminals and from the terminals to the motor frame. There is also an earth strap from the motor to the propshaft tube and the motor leads are looped through Ferrites as per their reccomendations. To get the motor to reverse you have to run the leads to a Bridge Rectifier. Do a search of old postings on Mayhem and also on the Model Boats magazine website and you should be able to find lots of discussion on how to do it. If not post again and I will get mine in from the shed to have a look at which lead goes to which terminal. Don't let anybody persuade you to put a modern motor in it, the old one can be made to work fine with just a little bit of effort and it is well worth doing. Best of luck, Ian.

[HS93 (RIP)]

kiwimodelle  can I ask why with a 34" boat he Will need ballast to get it to plane as the full sized boat did you need to keep it light , a sea queen is 46" and a different boat.


 The Vanity


  look at   http://modelfireboats.com/     you will get some ideas as far as fitting are concerned there are a few sets on the market but you can scratch build your own easily and again much lighter

[The Vanity]

Gents, thanks for the replies.  I haven't a clue what you're all on about. I know what a diode does...just!  And I'm sure I could find the threads you mention about suppression and all.  When I originally used it with the REP radio it worked perfectly, just wouldn't go backuds!
My Dad could wire a whole house, but couldn't get his head round the motor!
Suppression never seemed to affect the old carrier wave single channel with its valves and 90Volt battery and an Ever Ready "actuator".
If you could press the button three times quick enough an extra function was switchable, but going left twice meant wiggling right in between, yet I could always run it happily round the oyster beds at Paglesham for what relatively little time the lantern batteries lasted.

What is an ECS, btw?  Is there a make name of speed control that I could buy?

Also, yes I could scratch build all the fittings much better than the Ripmax items, but then it wouldn't be a KeilKraft Crash tender. That's the point. I could MAKE a perfect one, but that woudl have nothing to do with my childhood.  Same goes for the Sea Queen, Sea Urchin, Sea Hornet and MTB I also have!  Particularly the Sea Urchin, my first ever model boat, still with the original Kako motor, KK prop and shaft.
That was given to me when I was 7, so that is now 51 years old and still going fine. Straight running only.
Saddest day when Aerokits went under.

Thanks again,
V

[HS93 (RIP)]

Gents, thanks for the replies.  I haven't a clue what you're all on about. I know what a diode does...just!  And I'm sure I could find the threads you mention about suppression and all.  When I originally used it with the REP radio it worked perfectly, just wouldn't go backuds!
My Dad could wire a whole house, but couldn't get his head round the motor!
Suppression never seemed to affect the old carrier wave single channel with its valves and 90Volt battery and an Ever Ready "actuator".
If you could press the button three times quick enough an extra function was switchable, but going left twice meant wiggling right in between, yet I could always run it happily round the oyster beds at Paglesham for what relatively little time the lantern batteries lasted.

What is an ECS, btw?  Is there a make name of speed control that I could buy?

Also, yes I could scratch build all the fittings much better than the Ripmax items, but then it wouldn't be a KeilKraft Crash tender. That's the point. I could MAKE a perfect one, but that woudl have nothing to do with my childhood.  Same goes for the Sea Queen, Sea Urchin, Sea Hornet and MTB I also have!  Particularly the Sea Urchin, my first ever model boat, still with the original Kako motor, KK prop and shaft.
That was given to me when I was 7, so that is now 51 years old and still going fine. Straight running only.
Saddest day when Aerokits went under.

Thanks again,
V

Original Aerokits fittings go for a fortune and are very rare when you can get them £100 +  Kieilcraft  just the distributars of the range at times , they have had at least 5 owners

[The Vanity]

Hi HS93, my fittings kit was a Ripmax one. Absolutely everything in there from cleats to foam monitors in a garish gold vac-flashed finished.
I used to just get it out and look at it. Did that for years.
Aerokits were the kit maker, KK the distributor, but my box, which I had till a few years ago had KeilKraft Aerokits on it all in one name, but the drawings had KeilKraft on the bottom.

I figured any surviving fittings kits would be rare if any survived at all and if they did they'd be very musty new old stock from a forgotten store.

Never mind, I will simply replicate them, so they LOOK like Ripmax fittings!

Oh, sorry I twigged that ESC was electronic speed controller in the end!  I've just never had one. I used to do without or use rheostats.
My manual is Model Boat Radio Control from about 1957.
I suppose my old radio gear of 27 meg is now illegal too, is it?  I have a Mini Hex. One of the first proportional systems sold in Britain, basically a copy of the American Kraft, in a blue leather covered ally box.  Bought it from Exeter Model Shop. I believe it was made by a local guy.
I erm...I don't do modern!
Regards,
V

[SteamboatPhil]

I've still got 27 meg in my crash tender, so no problem there. How about a few pics   

[HS93 (RIP)]

Hi HS93, my fittings kit was a Ripmax one. Absolutely everything in there from cleats to foam monitors in a garish gold vac-flashed finished.
I used to just get it out and look at it. Did that for years.
Aerokits were the kit maker, KK the distributor, but my box, which I had till a few years ago had KeilKraft Aerokits on it all in one name, but the drawings had KeilKraft on the bottom.

I figured any surviving fittings kits would be rare if any survived at all and if they did they'd be very musty new old stock from a forgotten store.

Never mind, I will simply replicate them, so they LOOK like Ripmax fittings!

Oh, sorry I twigged that ESC was electronic speed controller in the end!  I've just never had one. I used to do without or use rheostats.
My manual is Model Boat Radio Control from about 1957.
I suppose my old radio gear of 27 meg is now illegal too, is it?  I have a Mini Hex. One of the first proportional systems sold in Britain, basically a copy of the American Kraft, in a blue leather covered ally box.  Bought it from Exeter Model Shop. I believe it was made by a local guy.
I erm...I don't do modern!
Regards,
V

If you say so ...If you have the buld instructions read the front page, I woul put a copy on  now but cannot get at that file at the moment but will gladly post it next week

[red181]

vanity, I know you said you want to keep the motor, but it could cause a headache for you, however, esc is electronic speed controller, you need one of these, it gives the proportional throttle signal to the motor (in basic terms!), I use in my Aerokits Fireboat an electronise 35amp, with reverse, not all esc's have reverse. However, before you buy anything, get on the fireboat website, look at all the setups, decide what you want, My set up is purely for speed, so I have components for that job, you may decide thats not for you so we can advise what to get accordingly, as for ballast, this hull does not need it, its a very narrow hull and once you have all the running gear in weight will be the enemy as the rear sits quite low and can be swamped very easily if care isnt taken when reversing.

Where are you located?

[malcolmfrary]

I suppose my old radio gear of 27 meg is now illegal too, is it?

That depends very much on its technical performance.  Does it have interchangeable crystals?  If not, it might well be that it isn't illegal, but at the same time it might not make you any friends due to either it interfering with others, or vice-versa.  At todays prices, a new one is a good investment, or even going really modern and getting into 2.4GHz stuff, because when you look at the prices from the likes of GiantCod, the end could be in sight for the lower frequency bands.  As 2.4GHz is reckoned to be much more proof against interference, it could cut down any problems created by the motor.

[Circlip]

27Moggies is still legal tender for models in all three enviroments and no matter if super-regen or superhet, (Non x-tal or x-tal controlled). X-talled is always going to be safer than non, but with the influx of the RTR toys from China etc. if you still go for 27,make sure that the unit is operating at the max permitted output.

  Regards  Ian.

[dodgy geezer]

Anyone know if The Vanity is still watching this thread? I hope to get some Taycol advice out on the web in a day or two...