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[octo]

warned you previously that i was a complete novice as regards r/c thingys,
"Here come the questions". What Radio control set do i need?
Will 2channel be enough? .WHats the difference betweenAM or FM,
27mhz or40 mhz/.  yours in puzzlement Tony. o

[malcolmfrary]

What Radio control set do i need?
Will 2channel be enough? .WHats the difference betweenAM or FM,
27mhz or40 mhz/.

What do you want to control?
If you want forward/reverse, left/right, 2 channel will do the job.  If you want to control lights, sounds, twizz guns and shoot them etc,you need more channels.
Difference between AM & FM.  As long as the TX and RX match, you probably wont care.  FM is somewhat less prone to interference.
27mHz, 40MHz.  These are the frequency bands that we operate in.  Again, as long as the TX and RX match, no problem.

[Peterm]

Malcolm,  2.4 GHz would be a lot easier for him?  Pete

[octo]

thanks malcolm and peter, i had planned on navigation lights and diesel motor sound.
yours tony

[Mankster]

You'll be wanting a a 4 channel or greater set then. Which means 40mhz FM or 2.4 Ghz. With 2.4Ghz you dont have to worry about frequency clashes at the pond as you not need crystals. You have to buy extra receivers from the same manufacturer though, so check out the prices of spare RX before deciding on brand. If you ever intend to operating submarines 40Mhz is your only choice as 2.4Ghz signals don't penerate water.

[dodgy geezer]

Do we have a simple beginners guide somewhere?

We need to say things like:

A radio control consists of three main bits, a transmitter, receiver and a servo, which connects to the receiver.

When you move a stick on the transmitter, a little arm on the servo moves. So if you put the receiver and servo in a boat, and attach the servo arm to the rudder, you can steer the boar from a distance...


A transmitter usually has more than one stick on it. Two sticks, able to move in two directions each, is a common number. This can operate 4 servos. That is known as a 4 channel set, and with it you could control rudder and engine speed and have two channels left over for other things like turning lights on and off....

You usually buy transmitter/receiver (Tx/RX) pairs together. They operate on fixed frequencies. You have to use the legal ones, which in the UK are:

27Mhz band - all models
35 mhz band - only aircraft
40 mhz band - only surface vehicles (boats/cars)
2.4Ghz band - all models

For all the frequencies apart from 2.4Ghz, you have about 30 frequency 'spots' in a band, and you have to check that no one else is on the same spot frequency as you are before turning on. You can tell because of the frequency flags that everyone puts on their aerials. If the pond is crowded you may have to wait, or change your spot by buying another set of TX/RX crystals for a different spot.

2.4ghz automatically allocates spots, so you don't have to bother. And some very cheap Chinese kit is coming into the country, so a lot of people are going 2.4Ghz...


So, to wrap it up, You will need at least a 2-channel TX/RX pair, with two servos, to have basic boat control. You can buy 27Mhz and 2.4ghz kit cheaply at about £30, better kit at 40Mhz or 2.4Ghz at 100 upwards.

Then you will need a boat, and a motor. I've left out talking about TX and RX batteries, they don't cost much but you will need some of those as well....

[malcolmfrary]

Do we have a simple beginners guide somewhere?

I think you just said it. 

[PMK]

At the risk of sounding like a total cynic, any man/woman/child who doesn't even possess the most basic understanding of the R/C hobby, I would have to question if they have chosen the right hobby. Experience has shown that, no matter how kind you are, or no matter how much time you invest on introducing newcomers to the scene and carefully explaining all the numerous idiosyncrasies, etc, they invariably end up throwing in the towel at the first hurdle. And before you know it, they're gone in a flash - without even as much as hint of thanks.
Either that or you find that most newcomers aren't too fussed either way about etiquette and are all too ready to just bung any old Tx/Rx in their models, regardless of frequencies, and end up creating havoc for just about everyone else.
In this case, I'm prepared to be corrected (hopefully).
Time shall tell.

[RaaArtyGunner]

At the risk of sounding like a total cynic, any man/woman/child who doesn't even possess the most basic understanding of the R/C hobby, I would have to question if they have chosen the right hobby. Experience has shown that, no matter how kind you are, or no matter how much time you invest on introducing newcomers to the scene and carefully explaining all the numerous idiosyncrasies, etc, they invariably end up throwing in the towel at the first hurdle. And before you know it, they're gone in a flash - without even as much as hint of thanks.
Either that or you find that most newcomers aren't too fussed either way about etiquette and are all too ready to just bung any old Tx/Rx in their models, regardless of frequencies, and end up creating havoc for just about everyone else.
In this case, I'm prepared to be corrected (hopefully).
Time shall tell.

One must always be careful of foot in mouth  as there are always exceptions 
I started out blissfully ignorant    and got up after the hurdles   and carried on,   not an expert but I can now understand  some of what some are raving about
and hopefully will continue to learn
There is always hope so don't give up on us.     

[RaaArtyGunner]

Do we have a simple Beginners guide somewhere?
 I think you just said it. 

Good point    beginners guides  in all sections/areas say at the start of each listing/subject or listed as such under its own section would be a plus.   

[Netleyned]

PMK
Where did you learn about Radio Control?
Everyone has to start somewhere
I asked a question of a guy at a lake about the frequency
he was using. I was told I would not really understand
the technical system he was using
I walked away in disgust
With a City& Guilds Telecomms Technician Cert.
and at the time involved in satellite comms
trials for the MOD I might have had a clue!


Ned

[PMK]

"...I was told I would not really understand the technical system he was using..."

In that case, the man who told you that was nothing short of a buffoon. And credit to you for sticking by your guns.
I stand by what I said, and repeat that all newcomers should at least have the decency to make the effort to study some of the ins and outs of the hobby before considering if it's the sort of thing they're capable of understanding.
It's a classic case of perhaps and maybe's. But bitter experience has proven (countless times) that anyone asking about frequencies before even knowing what a crystal does is a recipe for disaster - not to mention expensive.
Where did I learn about R/C? I learnt like everyone else - the hard way. I got off my butt and bought books/generally boned-up on the subject before making of berk of myself in front of the more experienced guys/gals. It's not hard to do, but it sure paints a bad picture if you don't.
Of course, there will always be the so-called experts, always somebody ready to give advice. But how would a novice know if that advice is any good? Poor old Octo, if he's still struggling with the basics, then how on earth would he know if someone is spinning him a yarn? Not all the advice you hear is good, so the dude is leaving himself open to all sorts of agro. Much better all round if he was to ask himself if the R/C hobby is really for him.

Like I said, I stand to be corrected. It'a not looking promising so far, but I truly hope I'm proven wrong.

[tigertiger]

My experience was bit different. I knew nothing.
I went to the model shop and bought a sail boat, 2 Channel radio set, and sail servo. Because the man said I would need them.
I bought the cheapest radio set on the shelf.
I built the boat and off I went sailing.
Any additional knowledge I have about RC I have picked up on forums or from chaps down the pond.

Some basic guide at this level above would be easy.



However,

Now I am thinking of something a bit more sophisticated (not the RC transmitter reeciver stuff) requiring motor, speed controller, etc; I have read stuff on the forums.
The bid issue is that I do not always know what components are needed, what they do, or even what some of them are called.
I find the ACTion Electronics website guide really useful as all of thier components have a good guide and instructions showing how they fit with other components.

A guide for the internal gubbings of an electric boat is outside of the RC part, a guide would be a book. I now have one by the way, but have not had cause to use it. Bright's Complete Marine Radio Control Manual. It is recommended on many Websites.

[tigertiger]

PS. to my last.

I have also plagued people like PMK with dumb questions.
But the only really dumb question is the one I didn't ask.
One time he prevented me starting a fire.

[octo]

To pmx !;- you will be. to every one else thanks alot

[dodgy geezer]

At the risk of sounding like a total cynic, any man/woman/child who doesn't even possess the most basic understanding of the R/C hobby, I would have to question if they have chosen the right hobby.
....

Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis, of course. When I started with R/C you had to start by knowing what a carrier wave was, and how to modulate it, because you were making your own equipment. Anyone who didn't know that was not going to get very far.

Nowadays I suspect that some of the world's best R/C pilots/builders may not know this - it is no longer critical knowledge. How many drivers know anything about 'advancing the spark'? That was a pretty central driving requirement up to 1950, and nowadays it is a completely automatic function of the engine management software, only of interest to 'chippers'...

In the same way I suspect that frequency allocation will become an arcane topic only of interest to the historians, and no longer a basic item of knowledge. Park flyers on 2.4Ghz no longer need to know about it...

One area where a new entrant to R/C is often not well supported is in the 'etiquette' of the hobby. I don't read many beginners guides, but have the impression that they are often strong on technology, and weak on things like checking for interference, the order of turning equipment on, local rules on what can be sailed, insurance issues and so on...

[Circlip]

And after attending a model exhibition, as a first model, everyone wants to build a Spitfire/Bismark withfull working weaponry/Formula 1 car with all the electronic gizmos------

  Regards  Ian.

[787Eng]

This question used to appear in the R/C aircraft world also. My recommendation was always to get the best radio you can afford at the time. If you get more functions now than you currently need thats OK because you WILL use them in the end on perhaps your next model.

My recommendation would be to get something on 2.4Ghz and programable (typicaly has an LCD Screen, ie DX6i) so that installation in your model is just that bit essayer to setup and gives more flexability...

Mark

[DickyD]

At the risk of sounding like a total cynic, any man/woman/child who doesn't even possess the most basic understanding of the R/C hobby, I would have to question if they have chosen the right hobby. Experience has shown that, no matter how kind you are, or no matter how much time you invest on introducing newcomers to the scene and carefully explaining all the numerous idiosyncrasies, etc, they invariably end up throwing in the towel at the first hurdle. And before you know it, they're gone in a flash - without even as much as hint of thanks.
Either that or you find that most newcomers aren't too fussed either way about etiquette and are all too ready to just bung any old Tx/Rx in their models, regardless of frequencies, and end up creating havoc for just about everyone else.
In this case, I'm prepared to be corrected (hopefully).
Time shall tell.

Tut tut Dude, we've all got to start somewhere

Confucius him say " A closed mouth gathers no foot."

[PMK]

"To pmx !;- you will be."

I will be what? Proven wrong?
Good! I want you to prove me wrong. But no need to sound so sarcastic about it.
As DG has so rightly pointed out, most everything is so dumbed-down nowadays that you don't need to know anything at all about frequency-modulated carriers, or amplititude-modulated carriers, or indeed anything about crystals in order to create mayhem among fellow enthusiast.
It's just that your initial posting is screaming out everything novice. Sure, ask questions and learn by all means, but don't run away with the idea that getting into R/C modelling (or ANY hobby, come to that) is a walkover. Maybe it's the way you asked your initial question, because it doesn't half smack of flippancy. Don't do that to yourself, else you're on to loser from the word go. Your "What radio control set do i need" question would imply that you haven't even bothered to buy any magazines or books on the subject -- instead, you come crashing in almost with an air of expectancy, almost like it's your God-given right that fellow members should somehow be obligated to tell you everything.
Try learning something off your own back first - prove to others that you're in it for the right reasons - and not just another Jonny-come-lately. You will be surpised how many will fall over themselves to proffer you all the help you need as soon as they see that you're actually keen.
Lighten up and just try to see it as a bit of sage advice.

[PMK]

Tut tut Dude, we've all got to start somewhere

Right on.
But less of the "tut, tut", if you don't mind. Open your eyes, read it again - and see it for what it actually is. Why do some folk automatically jump to the wrong conclusion all the bleeding time? For you yourself would probably be one of the fisrt to berate any idiot that should happen upon your sailing pond and causing interference to your radio gear.

I'll forgive your little swipe at me on the morrow - when it's the Sabbath.

[Circlip]

Very sound comments PMK, trying to be helpful, look whats happened to Bunkerbarges efforts. Gerra book an have a read  

  Regards  Ian.

[Dueller]

Hi Octo,

I have just got back into boat modelling after a long break. I did not want to spend a lot of money so i went for the "Planet 5" 2.4 system. (i bought mine from Howes) but they are widely available.

There are 4 stick channels and one on/off switch chanel. The reciever is small and light and the "bonding" process was simple. This process bonds the transmitter to the reciever so that even if all the other people on the pond are on 2.4 then there should be no interferance.

The switch works by powering one of the chanels on the reciever so you can use it for lights etc.

I have used a velcro patch on my reciever so that i can move it between models, i will buy another in due course.

The only downside so far is that the "bend/knuckle" joint on the transmitter aerial is not very strong and i have had to repair mine but it was no real bother.

Hope this helps a bit.

Lee

[vintagent]

I think we're in danger here of losing sight of the fact that people don't generally read any more, because they've grown up in the internet generation.  It is galling to me, but I have heard so many youngsters in particular say to me that if it ain't on t'net, they won't know it.
Consequently forums have become an oracle that they were not, perhaps, originally intended to be.
They are seen as the repository of all instant knowledge by beginners of a certain age.  It is also more difficult to find any books of interest or help in the Public Library system, so...back the good old Net while Mum cooks tea.

I think those of us with any knowledge on certain topics have to face up to the fact that more and more, we will be expected to expound on any aspect of our hobbies at which we have a working proficiency.

I really don't think we can hope to win new blood into our hobby if we say things like PMK, quite so bluntly, even if he does have a point...up to a point.

That is as much a fact of the times as me being told to use Chinese 2.4 when I really want my old stuff in my 47 year old Crash Tender, (even if brushless motors fascinate me!)

Regards,
Vintagent

[Dueller]

I read quite a few publications on chosen subjects, but the forum is very usefull as well. I find it especially usefull to avoid expensive pitfalls. Many publications give detailed information on different subjects but not necessarily first hand experience. If after reading up on say 2.4 systems you decide to buy one, do you spend £200 or £45. This is where the forum comes into it's own.

Octo, i would say, look at a few of the mags now that you have an idea. Choose a system you like the look of and then ask for people experiences with that system.

Many people here like to give their knowledge as part of being in the forum environment.

I'm 47 and i use the net while my girlfriend makes the dinner (unless i'm summond to help)  

Lee