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[RickF]

Hi all,

Since this is a new forum - albeit with a lot of familiar contributors - I thought I would share my experiences as I tackle my next project, which is also a "new starter". This is to be an RC model of Torpedo Boat No. 80, built by Yarrow in 1886. I first came across this vessel many years ago in Edgar March's book "British Destroyers". At the time I was building a TBD, but I copied the drawing of TB No 80.

I originally planned to build her to the "proper" scale - 1:96. But with a length of 135 ft and a beam of 14 ft she would have come out at just under 17 inches by an inch-and-threequarters. Apart from the problem of having to shoehorn everything into such a tiny space, I thought the possibility of building a small but effective submarine very likely! So she will be built to 1:48 - still small, but hopefully seaworthy.

I've done most of the research necessary - and received help from several modellers via other forums - so now its time to draw up the plans for the hull.

Don't expect this to be completed overnight. I have lots of other projects underway, the weather's getting better and my vintage Austins are calling, too, but hopefully we will see it to its conclusion.

Regards

Rick

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[Warship]

Nice one Rick, I look forward to your updates.

[RickF]

Can,

Click on Additional Options in the reply window, then browse to locate the image on your PC. It's as easy as that. Heres one I made earlier!

Rick

[White Ensign]

Hi Rick, don`t say that it is not possible to make such a small vessel working in scale 1:96. Attached you will find a photograph of my HMS Velox, fully detailed scale 1:100....... and under R/C. It?s the hell of a job, with just 385 Gramms, but it`s possible.

Happy modeling,
J?rg

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[Warship]

Nice to see some of the early RN ships. Nice model you have there, Jorg

Warship

[White Ensign]

Thankyou for the compliment!  ::)

It`s completely scratchbuild, the hull made of fibreglass out of a pattern, the deck and the superstructure out of 0,3mm aluminium-plate.
In this "class" you will not succeed with the plank on frame-method.

J?rg

[RickF]

Hi Jorg,

I once (in the late sixties) built the 1/72 TBD from the Model Maker plans, so I know that it can be done in theses scales - though I have to say it wasn't done half as well as "Velox". However that was 33 inches by 3 inches beam, and I guess "Velox" is somewhere near that. Seventeen by one and three-quarters inches is just too tiny for anything more than the bath-tub!

Rick

[White Ensign]

Rick, not necessarily the bath tube! On a calm day I "lead" her out to the pond- without having any problems as she has (like her origin) something of a cork on the water. But she`s doing fine, with having more than 50% of her weight under the waterline...- and as long as you care about the waves of the big vessels. ::)
Though 1:100 had become my favourite scale as you can do nearly every vessel in that.

J?rg

[RickF]

I?ve been working on the plans for HMTB No. 80, primarily the basic hull structure. I intend to build her as a plank-on-frame model, always aware that top-hamper weight will be critical.

I photocopied the original plan many years ago from Edgar J March?s ?British Destroyers?. The first thing to do was to scale the photocopy, so I scanned it in. As I only have an A4 scanner, it had to be done in two halves and saved as .JPG files. I then opened these, using Adobe Photoshop, cut and pasted the two halves together and saved the resulting complete drawing, again as a .JPG file.

I then imported this into my drawing package. I use Micrografx Designer. Since I knew the OA length and the beam of the boat, I enlarged the imported image until I got the correct scale size. I could then trace off any parts I need and copy them to a separate drawing. I also printed out the scaled, imported image as a ?master reference?.

The first drawing I made was a deck level plan. This has been pasted onto the building board and will act as a reference for constructing the hull, locating the frames etc. I use a spray can of photo mounting adhesive for attaching the drawing.

Second was a side elevation on the centre line, showing the keel, with the position of the frames plotted. For lightness the keel consists of a bow and stern sections in 1/8? ply connected by 1/8? square spruce. The stern section is cut to accommodate the stern tube, with 1/16? and 1/8? doublers for strength.

The third drawing was the frames. Each frame is drawn 1/16? undersize to allow for the thickness of the planking. As the hull will be built upside-down, the tops of the frames are flat. Cambered pieces will be added latter to shape the deck. The bow and stern sections and the turtle-decked forecastle will all be constructed in balsa using the ?bread-and-butter? method.

Once the frames were drawn they were transferred to a further drawing, along with the bow and stern sections of the keel. This was printed out and pasted onto a sheet of ply, ready for cutting out.

Which is the next job??

[Warship]

Nice one Rick, it's always good to see, how people go about their builds. It is also useful, for picking up tips and ideas. I try to show how I go about each part of building my carrier Victorious. I learned from people posting in this way as you can see what is going on. It's all well and good showing completed pictures of a model, but you don't get to find out how that person went about it, unless they take the trouble to show you.

Warship

[RickF]

Progress has been made on TB80. Unfortunately I've been unable to accessthe site for the last few days, so have been unable to post this report until now.

Laying the keel

The first stage in constructing the hull is to lay the keel. TB80?s keel consists of bow and stern sections made from 1/8? ply, connected by 1/8? square spruce strip. The stern section is cut to accommodate the stern tube, with 1/16? and 1/8? doublers for strength.

To ensure the keel is straight and true, square blocks are carefully aligned and screwed to the building board. Since the planking stops short at bow and stern, the keel can be fixed to these blocks.

The bow and stern sections and doublers are then cut from the ply. The 1/8? doublers are used as patterns for the 1/16? doublers. These are glued to the stern section. Once dry, the 1/4? slot is cut for the stern tube, the pieces are carefully lined up and the 1/8? doublers are glued in place. The doubled area is roughly trimmed to shape and the stern tube tried in place

The bow and stern sections are securely screwed to the blocks on the building board and the connecting 1/8? spruce strip glued in place.

The next task is to cut and fit the frames, but first it?s a holiday in Morocco  - then out with the trusty coping saw?..


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[White Ensign]

... that looks like a proper job you are doing there- keep us informed about it!

J?rg

P.S. ...and enjoy your holiday! 

[RickF]

Steering

Back from my holiday, I began cutting out the frames. I soon realised that I would have to make provision for the steering gear at this early stage.

[Please excuse any technical terms that I may misuse ? I only know what I have managed to sort out myself.? If anyone has any information on the steering of these boats, or plans/photograph of the steering gear, please get in touch ? I need all the help I can get!]

Steering on TB80 is by chain drive from wheels in the forward and aft conning towers, which are somehow connected. The chains leave the aft conning tower at right angles, presumably down conduits and then pass around vertical pulleys before going aft. They are then connected to the tiller chains by pulleys before being brought forward and anchored. The long straight runs of the chains are, or appear to be, rods. The drawing below should make this clear.

I was now faced with two alternatives: make a working chain steering system or drive the rudder conventionally and add dummy steering chains. I decided on the former.

A bit of maths is necessary to ensure the servo will operate the tiller effectively. I decided that the tiller should move ? 35?. With the chains secured at a radius of 0.73?, this equates to an angular movement of approximately 0.9?. As this is transmitted via a two-fold purchase, a 1.8? angular? movement of the actuator is required. To obtain this, with 180? rotation, I need to wind the chain on a spool diameter of approximately 1.15?.

As access is limited, the servo is well forward of the aft conning tower, so the chains cannot go directly to the servo drum. I have decided to use plastic tube as conduits, crossing them over to reduce the bend. Again, I hope the drawing makes this clear.

Now to cut and drill the frames ??..

[Engineman]

[Please excuse any technical terms that I may misuse ? I only know what I have managed to sort out myself.? If anyone has any information on the steering of these boats, or plans/photograph of the steering gear, please get in touch ? I need all the help I can get!]

Will try to sort out everything what I have on this matter. I have some pictures of steering gear of KM TBs of this era. BTW the straight runs were not bars but steel rope. And don't forget about the bow rudder of TB80.

[RickF]

Bow rudder???? Edgar J March?s drawings don't show a bow rudder. Even if they did, I don't think I'd fit one - certainly not a working one.

I'll be grateful as always, Roman, for anything you can let me have. Work on TB80 and boats in general has slowed up a bit now - it's the old car rally season.

Rick

[Engineman]

Bow rudder???? Edgar J March?s drawings don't show a bow rudder.

You're not right Rick. They do. Have a look? The thing is that the tracing was performed a bit roughly and some things are not recognisable at a first glance.

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[RickF]

Every day I learn something new. Thanks Roman. Why were they fitted? I would have thought the boats would have been manoeverable enough without them - or were they intended for use when steaming astern? Is the well it retracts into circular, so that it still turns, or is there a clutch to disengage it and lock it fore and aft. Whatever, I think my TB80 will be built without one!

Regards

Rick

[RickF]

Well, the Austin Seven is put away for the winter, so now it’s back to H M Torpedo Boat No 80 – if I can remember where I left off!

Installing the frames

All the frames have been cut out from 1/8” ply and checked for fit, so the next job is to fix them in position.

The keel, comprising bow and stern sections (made from 1/8” ply) and 1/8” spruce keel strip is securely screwed to the blocks on the building board. The two identical mid-section frames (5 and 6) are erected first, ensuring that they are vertical to the building board and square to the keel. The 1/8” spruce stringers along the top of the hull are then glued to these frames (Picture 1).

The remaining frames are now glued into position. (Picture 2).

Once the glue has set, the additional stringers are glued into position. (Picture 3).

[White Ensign]

The bow rudders had been fitted to support the boats especially due to harbour-activities (going astern) as depending on the ratio Length/beam they had been not very manoeverable with their stern-rudders. But the effect of the bow rudders had been proofen as not very much supporting. At full ahead they also had been found as reducing the top-speed and a point of weekness, though they had been made moveable.

Jörg

[RickF]

Thanks for the info, Jörg. I guessed they were used when going astern, but as I said earlier, my TB80 will not include one - to fiddly to model and definitely not worth making to work!

Rick

[RickF]

The completed framework

Once the glue has set, the framework is removed from the building board.

Any unforeseen gaps are filled, then the whole thing is rubbed down to smooth everything off and to shape the stringers so they are flush with the frames. A block of wood is fitted between the mid-section frames and screwed to the building board so that the keel will be held straight.

At this stage the framework seems fairly strong and weighs only four ounces (110 grams)

Next we will start planking…..

[RickF]

Planking

TB80 is planked in 1/16 inch balsa. Rather than use pre-cut strips, I use sheet and cut off strips of the necessary width – which is not constant. These are tapered as necessary by positioning on the hull and marking them – I’m not clever enough to calculate the taper in advance!

Photo 1 shows the first planks. These are at the top of the hull. Note that it’s important to plank both sides of the hull at the same time to prevent distortion.

In Photo 2 the planks nearest the keel have been fitted. No real reason for working from both ends – I just felt like it. The first tapered planks have been cut ready for installation.

Photo 3 shows the first tapered planks glued into position.

[RickF]

Still planking, but rather than bore anyone who might be looking in with yet more photos of a half-planked hull, I'll wait until it's finished before posting again.

In the mean time, a couple of questions.

Plating - do you think the hull should have simulated plating? If so, what do you think is the best way to go about it? Does anyone have details of Yarrow's plating methods? There's a shell expansion plan in Lyons' "The First Destroyers" (not Yarrow), together with one or two useful photos. Most rivetting appears to be flush/countersunk, so is it worth trying to show it?

Torpedo Tubes  - TB80 was fitted with 14" torpedo tubes - one fixed in the bows and twin tubes rotating round the aft conning tower. Does anyone have details of this twin tube installation.

Thanks

Rick

[White Ensign]

Rick, there is just little on informations or photographs on the Internet. But you should have a try at GOOGLE on their link for photographs. There I have found some of t-sinker mines where no other source was out of help. It`s worth a try anyway.
If not, get in touch with EXPLOSIONS! in Gosport or the IWM, they might have some informations as well.

Hope this was out of any help (or ignition),
Jörg

[DickyD]

Rick

Could only find this photo of torpedo boat 83. It seems to be similar and you can just about see the rear tubes. Sorry I could not find anything else :( :(
 
The other one off your original posting seems to show rear tubes. Its clearer on your posting.

Richard