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[Eddy5]

Hello,

My great uncle has recently passed away, leaving us with 4 boats as part of the estate. My mum's the executer of the estate and we need to find out how much these boats are worth (As the estate has to be split up), and also what we can do with them.
As a bit of background, my great uncle was an engineer by trade and so very good with his hands. He spent many of his later years building these boats.
And so on to the boats. All scratch built using whatever materials he could lay his hands on.
1st there's a small model, possibly 2ft long, which I believe is just a static model. It's in OK condition, but I think some work needs doing. I've not had a close look.
(Apologies for the poor quality pictures, I forgot my proper camera, so only had a phone to hand. I'll take some better ones next week).


2nd is a 4ft tug, in OK to good condition, needs a bit of tidying up. Radio controlled, I think there are some neat features, like a working water cannon, but it's been a few years since I last used them.


3rd is a 6ft ferry, again RC, but this needs a bit of work, the masts are bent and it needs some general sprucing. I remember the rear door goes up and down, but beyond that I know nothing more. (Shown here with the top off the ferry.)


4th is the crowning glory IMHO. It's a 12ft 3in RC model of the HMS Sheffield (WW2 version). This is packed to the gills with features, rotating gun turrets, radar dish rotates, bilge pumps, all props as the ship, working crane which can winch a launch off that can also be controlled, band music. I'm sure there's more that I've forgotten. This is in really great condition. He even made a trailer for it to take it to the boating lake, and the trailer includes a crane to lower it into the water. It's a truly fabulous thing.


We're still clearing out his house, so there's stuff to find for them and I'll try and get them working to see how they are. We've found plenty of photos of them in their build, and drawings etc which I need to sort out. I'll also take some better pictures.

So really I'd like some ideas on values of the boats and possible ideas for where they could go (Museums, clubs, private collectors). We'd really like to see them go to someone who can spend the time and effort on restoring and using them if possible. In a perfect world we would keep them, but we really have no where to put them or use them. Which is a crying shame. Although I have my eye on the tug as I think I can probably fit that in somewhere.

[Bunkerbarge]

You should make every effort to keep at least one of them.  You will regret it for ever more if you don't.

The old cliche of they are worth what someone is prepared to pay for them is never more true than with very old hand built models like this.  The trick is finding the person who will pay for them.

I would start by making enquiries at auction houses and try to find a specialist one that deals with old toys.  Then you need one that is going to do a specialist auction of say model boats to get the models into the forum where people will be prepared to pay for them.

You could just put them on Ebay but you are running the risk of letting them go cheaply if there isn't enough interest in them at the time they are on.

I am sure there are museums that would appreciate them but possibly not in thier current condition but it could certainly be a worthwhile avenue to investigate.

For me they are all beautifull.  I love old hand built cargo ships and these are all stunners.  If you compare them to a modern kit and take into account the hours, the age and the character there is in each I would say you could certainly be looking at 2-400 pounds for the first three and maybe 4-600 pounds for the Sheffield.

Do us a favour though,  if you do decide to sell let us know on here first as there are a great number of people on this forum who would give them a very good home!!

[Eddy5]

I agree on trying to keep one. If only I could keep the Sheffield  :(
Anyway thanks for the advice. I agree on not using eBay, I just wouldn't want to risk it, especially with my track record on there 
Does anyone know of any specialist auction houses that would be able to do justice to these?

I found some more pics of the Sheffield I took 3 years ago. It looks more tatty in these shots than I remember it being at the weekend, but I'll give it a closer look this weekend.


I will definitely keep this forum updated with progress on these.
Thanks again and keep the advice coming  :)

[cdsc123]

Magnificent. Just beautiful. Can't wait to see more photos. The man was a genius. Don't sell them.

[-KEMO-]

Hiya,
      I really like the Tug, it looks like the Turmoil.

Keith.

[Colin Bishop]

If you have to sell then the best bet is likely to be Christie's Maritime Model sale at South Kensington for the models in best condition, especially the Sheffield. The next one is on 16th May see this link: http://www.christies.co.uk/auction/calendar/auction_calendar.asp?scid=6&month=5&year=2007&location=37

You could send them some photos and other information in advance to ask their opinion. For unique good quality scratch built models they are likely to get you the best price. From the information you have given you could be looking at quite a lot of money for the Sheffield - thousands rather than hundreds.

[Bunkerbarge]

You're probably right Colin, the more pictures I see the more I realise just how special this model is.

[John W E]

hi there Ed5

Ive have to agree with the comments already posted - they are absolutely lovely models and if I was in your shoes, I would try my very hardest to KEEP ALL OF THEM even if it was to go to a garage, or some other room to store them in .      But....there is one person who springs to mind that may be able to help and guide you through - and that is POSITIVE who is a member of this Forum.   I can imagine that if you contact him, he will be able to guide you through the Auction Houses and give you some good advice on Valuation.   Positive deals in this field.   Ah, but, try and keep them my friend.

You can guarantee that in a few years time - you will feel that you wish you could of and you wish you had of.....kept them.

Aye
John e
BLUEBIRD

[Colin Bishop]

I don't think that Positive (Robert Wilson) frequents this site much these days. He does however sell regularly through Christie's but only miniature models. He may be able to offer some advice on dealing with them. You can contact him through his new website http://www.miniatureships.blogspot.com/ click on Profile and there is an opportunity to Email him from there.

With regard to keeping the models, it depends on how you view them. If they are regarded as family heirlooms and you are genuinely interested in them then keep them certainly. But not everyone has the space to display large models or necessarily wants to, in which case it's probably best to properly document them and sell them on to a good home. Better that than a slow deterioration.

[Eddy5]

Thanks again, your advise is really useful.
I hadn't really thought about the tug (Turmoil) being a real boat. Cool. I will have to look into the history of that as well.
The more I think about these boats, the more I feel responsible for their future. My uncle spent many years of his life making these so they deserve the best treatment possible.
You're right of course I really want to keep them, and will probably kick myself further down the line if we sell them.
I wouldn't really know what to do with them all, but I could maybe find some space. The Sheffield has held me in awe for many years.
 
However we do need to put a value on them so it can be worked into his estate value. Once we have some values we can then decide what the next step is (Which ultimately lies with my mum).
I'd love them to be on display where other people can appreciate his work. They really ought to be displayed working too, as the movement of them is a big part of their appeal.
Oh what to do, what to do  ???

[Colin Bishop]

If you are valuing them for probate purposes, which I assume you are then you need to keep the valuation low. Those models which need repairs can be assigned a nominal value as they could be deemed unsaleable. But does the taxman really need to know about them? Well, you could probably get away with it but it might save grief later on if you just put a spot value on them. As has been previously pointed out, you won't know what they are worth until they are sold. In your position I would treat the Boston Gannet as being of no value as it appears to be quite badly damaged. Say £200 on the tug and maybe £300 on the ferry if it isn't too damaged.

The Sheffield is a different kettle of fish but I wouldn't value it at more than £1,000 for probate purposes. You'd probably get away with £800 or so as the tax people would never be able to put a more accurate valuation on it and are unlikely to be very much interested in it anyway. You can probably get away with just listing "4 model boats, estimated total value £700" or something like that. You are unlikely to be challenged as there is no fixed scale of market values for these things. To play safe, you could look up a few cheap examples on Ebay to support your case and print them off for reference if needed.

The higher the valuation, the more the Government will take and as they take more than enough already, why make things easy for them?

[Shipmate60]

Eddy5
Try and keep one in his memory.
The others as has been said for probate very little.
there is also a problem with selling Sheffield. With a model that size the market is limited, but if you can find someone who really wants her it could be in the thousands, but that will only be likely at something like Christies.
You then have the problem of transporting her there without damaging her.
I have found that Radio Controlled models are worth about 10% of static models at specialist sales, don't ask me why.
Also as has been said before keep well clear of eBay, they will go for washers, but might be worth keeping an eye on eBay and using the final price as a probate valuation though.
I certainly don't envy you selling them, whatever you do don't mention they come from an estate, the vultures will come out the woodwork and offer ridiculously low prices.
Please keep us informed of any developments, there is enough experience on here to ensure you get e decent price.

Bob

[-KEMO-]

Hi again,
           the Turmoil was a Navy Bustler class tug and is famous for it's attempted rescue of American freighter Flying Enterprise. A book all about it can be found at   abebooks.co.uk   it is 'TURMOIL' by Ewart Brookes.

Keith.

[meechingman]

The British Rail Ferry looks like it's the Normannia, as she was first built, before she was converted to a car ferry. She wouldn't have had the BR arrows logo on the funnel at that time, though! Super models. I'd keep them if I had them.
Andy

[Eddy5]

More info. The ferry is the Falaise (Which I believe is the Normania's sister ship, so I'm incredibly impressed).
I've got loads of blueprints for the Sheffield now, and loads of photos of all the boats.
The Turmoil and Falaise seem to originate from sometime around 1956 to 1960!
I've got many pictures of them from that era, some with Stockport Advertiser stamps on the back, so I'll research some back issues of the newspapers to try and find more info.
I've got some great pictures from the 60's(?) when the Falaise was shown at the engineering company my uncle was working for as an example of the engineering skill of their engineers.
I've also got a great one from the 80's of my uncle towing himself in a rubber dingy with the Turmoil. He he he.
Something else has come to light is that there was a boat called the Dolphin which looks awfully similar to Turmoil and preceded it.
I've got log books that also show the Turmoil maybe a version 2, but I'm not sure.
The Turmoil and Sheffield have radio gear and electrics all fitted and should work when I get some batteries (Or find them).
The Falaise is stripped out.
The Boston Gannet was also radio controlled, and I have a great pic of my uncle with the boat when he'd first done it. I've inspected it more and indeed it could take some radio gear, although it is empty and in quite a poor state at the moment.
Lots of fun to be had with these.
Oh and I've decided to keep them for the time being 
More pics to follow soon.....

[Eddy5]

Some pictures of the boats as they were originally
The Boston Gannet in all its glory, with my Uncle Jack


Something I've still got to work out is why this boat is called the Dolphin, when it looks the same as the Turmoil. Maybe it was an early sister ship? Something for me to find out anyway.

The Turmoil doing what it was built for


And the Falaise in all it's glory. There are a lot of these pics, so he was obviously very proud of it.
Here is my Uncle pictured at a display stand at the engineering company where he used to work, showing an example of the craftsmanship of their engineers.

Some more quality pics of the Falaise.

[Colin Bishop]

Wonderful models Eddy. Thanks for sharing these pics with us. You don't see that sort of classic quality very often. Shame about the deterioration of the Boston Gannet.

The Falaise was featured in the book Scale Model Ships by Reeve and Thomas first published in 1951 and reprinted in 1959 when I won it as a Form Prize at my school in 1962! I still have the book. I wonder if the model was built from their plans?

That sort of work is not a bad memorial to leave behind you. All credit to Uncle Jack and respect to his memory.

[Bunkerbarge]

These are the sort of things with that amount of background and family history that must become heirlooms and be passed down from one generation to the next.

I am sure with a bit of time and patience the models can be restored to thier former glory.

Thanks for the pictures, very much appreciated and enjoyed.  By the way your uncle worked with some very pretty fitters!!!

[MCAT]

Must say what a skilled modeler he was .  and sure did have a pretty helper.
but i would be proud to own any of them but my pocket and skill would not do them Justis

keep one if you can. as the post's say there is help on this site should you need it and from
Modelers not money grabbers,
who im sure are wishing they had them. and may well be your best bet good luck and thanks for
sharing such great models with us.

[MikeK]

Beautiful models, it's good that you have decided to keep them.
 I'm surprised none of our hawk eyes didn't notice that his firm was quick to use his expertise for their own ends but couldn't spell "Falaise" below it. Maybe something else was distracting them 
Best of luck

MikeK