Topic: More about the swastika ban (Read 7926 times)

OneBladeMissing · « **on:** February 05, 2007, 06:07:38 pm »

Apparently this is true, the German eurocrats want to ban the display of the swastika throughout Europe.
Isn't it an ancient Jewish symbol as well?
There is a bank somewhere in Lancashire (I think) which has swastikas set into the floor just inside the main door. These are used to denote wealth and good luck, and pre-date the Nazi era. Last year some pc muppet decided to complain about them and asked for them to be removed. It was the first time anyone has complained. Even during WW2 nobody said anything about them.
I don't know any Germans and have never visited Germany, but they produced the Porsche 917, so they're ok in my book.

RickF · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2007, 08:59:14 pm »

Before we all go off on one again..........

GERMANY will not push during its presidency of the European Union for an EU-wide ban on the swastika and will leave it up to member states to decide whether to punish people who deny that the Holocaust happened, Berlin said yesterday.

Germany had said it wanted to harmonise rules throughout the 27-member bloc for dealing with Holocaust deniers and for punishing displays of the Nazi symbol, banned in Germany and several other states.

But, setting out plans for an EU-wide anti-racism law, it said it would not seek to prohibit "specific symbols such as swastikas".

A recent news item.

Rick

DickyD · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2007, 09:39:38 pm »

swastika
Cross in which the bars are extended at right angles in the same clockwise or anticlockwise direction. Its origin is uncertain, but it appears frequently as an ancient good luck and religious symbol in both the Old World and the New. In Hinduism it is a symbol of good luck and goodness. In this religion it originates from a symbol for the sun, and takes the form of a cross in which the bars are extended at right angles, usually pointing in a clockwise direction. A swastika with clockwise bars was adopted as the emblem of the Nazi Party and incorporated into the German national flag 1935–45.

The swastika was used as a religious symbol by the Buddhists and Jains. With anticlockwise bars, it is commonly used on maps to indicate a Buddhist temple.

In Hinduism swastikas are often used to decorate mandir (temples) and shrines, or incorporated into mandalas and rangoli patterns, used for meditation.

Richard

PS I f they had banned the swastika they would have upset a few people

uboatbuilder · « **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2007, 10:18:42 am »

We have swastikas on our bismark and tirpitz, and we have overheard comments from passers by at the lake, if they end up banning aftermarket decals ill just spray it on, its not as if we support the nazi party or anything, far from it we (like everyone else) want our models to be as accurate as possible.

And yes i have been into a bank here in london in golders green which is a very large jewish community and they have the ancient jewish symbol tiled in the floor, my next door neighbour has the hindu symbol paved in his driveway of course they symbolise different things but i dont think that everyone realises that so when they see it they think of the swastika, history dictates that you associate that shape with the nazi party afterall, where do you most commonly see it? In pictures of nazi germany.

on sunday we went to the imperial war museum, and of course there are various exhibits with swastikas, no one is offended because without them it wouldnt be historically accurate, which is why as modellers we use them, so i dont see the problem

I wont stop using it simply for accuracy purposes, and although they say they dont wish to prohibit it, whos to say they wont afterall everything else we dont want happens (in this country anyway) Congestion charge: government asked we said no they did it anyway, olympics didnt want it, got it anyway (cant speak for everyone), the only thing we didnt want and didnt get was the euro, lets hope the EU sees sense and doesnt ban it.

Oh and oneblademissing the germans built the carrera GT so they're ok with me to

Grant

sweeper · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2007, 12:06:22 pm »

Is there not some confusion over this topic?
The non-"German" version of the symbol is shown in it's various forms (facing either right or left) but is always shown with the legs of the symbol as being parallel to the base.
The "military" version is often referred to as "the twisted swastika" i.e. the upper leg is pointing to the right but is inclined at about 45 degrees to the base line.

The E.U. may consider that it is the font of all knowledge but how they can confuse two completely different symbols (with completely different meanings) makes me wonder just what intelligence is running the outfit.

gingyer · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2007, 05:49:28 pm »

Reading all the posts,
you have to laugh at the powers that be they want to ban anything to do with the Nazis and the war....
Fare enough I can see why so lets get rid of the swastika,
what about the autobans, the Volkswagen beetle because the Nazis laid down the blue print for these
but my favourite what I reckon would cause a war in its self to ban.....
all porche motor cars.......if it was not for WW2 Mr Porche would not have had enough money to develop
these sports cars, Because Mr Porche preferred to design and build tanks especially the tiger,king tiger and panther tanks

So where is it going to end?
My guess another European commission committee to be set up to evaluate the facts come to a conclusion,
costing us a fortune and giving the conclusion of the status quo

just my 10pence worth :)
Colin

polaris · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2007, 07:05:43 pm »

Dear All,

I just wish Brussels would concentrate on getting Europe running properly rather than creating new 'bureaucracy' :-\

Regards, Bernard2

Martin (Admin) · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2007, 07:47:01 pm »

Pythagoras's theorem has 24 words
The Lord's prayer has 66 words
The archimedes principle has 67 words
The ten commandments has 179 words
The Gettysburg Address has 286 words

The New European rules on the sale of cabbages has 26,253 words.

Stavros · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2007, 11:24:21 pm »

Flippin heck Martin have you swallowed some book on statistics,if so help can be had,may I suggets that you go to your shed or wherever and build a BOAT,it is much better for your health and sanity Stavros

bigfella · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2007, 12:37:49 am »

How can a symbol that has been used for thousands of years in various religions and cultures in a peacefull way be considered evil for its use in a 13 year period of history. ??? ??? ??? Doesn't weigh up

Bigfella

Ghost in the shell · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2007, 06:35:09 pm »

Quote from: uboatbuilder on February 06, 2007, 10:18:42 am

We have swastikas on our bismark and tirpitz, and we have overheard comments from passers by at the lake, if they end up banning aftermarket decals ill just spray it on, its not as if we support the nazi party or anything, far from it we (like everyone else) want our models to be as accurate as possible.

And yes i have been into a bank here in london in golders green which is a very large jewish community and they have the ancient jewish symbol tiled in the floor, my next door neighbour has the hindu symbol paved in his driveway of course they symbolise different things but i dont think that everyone realises that so when they see it they think of the swastika, history dictates that you associate that shape with the nazi party afterall, where do you most commonly see it? In pictures of nazi germany.

on sunday we went to the imperial war museum, and of course there are various exhibits with swastikas, no one is offended because without them it wouldnt be historically accurate, which is why as modellers we use them, so i dont see the problem

I wont stop using it simply for accuracy purposes, and although they say they dont wish to prohibit it, whos to say they wont afterall everything else we dont want happens (in this country anyway) Congestion charge: government asked we said no they did it anyway, olympics didnt want it, got it anyway (cant speak for everyone), the only thing we didnt want and didnt get was the euro, lets hope the EU sees sense and doesnt ban it.

Oh and oneblademissing the germans built the carrera GT so they're ok with me to

Grant

incidentally, the swastika still stands on the wreck of the bizmark, its been down there for almosy 60 years!

White Ensign · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2007, 04:35:07 pm »

... after all the comments I have read in the two posts about this theme there is just one question left:
Who bans the Eurocrats from harming our daily lifes with their senseless activities?

Jörg

Ghost in the shell · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2007, 05:07:21 pm »

well im sure someone has an idea, [lord let me be the one to press the button!!! oh please lord!] ::)

::)

Cargo · « **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2007, 06:13:36 pm »

From my point of view the ban of the swastika in germany is ok, the other countries can handle it by themself. I am not offended by a swastika on a Bismark or for educational purposes but i dont want to see the damned Nazi-Bunch running around again with a swastika flag in Germany. My 50cent...

polaris · « **Reply #14 on:** February 08, 2007, 07:17:14 pm »

Jan,

I agree. If 'the flag' is 'hijacked' by some few bias people wanting to relive some illconceived past symbol of domination then indeed a ban for such purposes is indeed correct: however, if the flag is used by others for an insignificant / innocent meaning then there should be no problem... indeed, the EU should have no influence or right to interfere with such a 'proper' right? - as long as it does not infringe upon missuse obviously. Missuse being the operative and very important word obviously.

Regards, Bernard2

anmo · « **Reply #15 on:** February 08, 2007, 07:22:55 pm »

When they start singing the 'Horst Wessel' and putting the swastika symbol on their sleeves, that's when we have to worry.

John W E · « **Reply #16 on:** February 08, 2007, 08:39:59 pm »

shall we leave this topic on light note

with a happy memory and I think a good bed-time story:

A certain member of this forum in 1975 was on his first trip to sea with Ellerman City Line, aboard
MV City of Columbo - and of course in them days....a lot of the trade was into the Persian Gulf. So, setting sail from Liverpool the ship was heavy laden with everything you can imagine - from fire engines down in the holds - to 15" diameter pipes strapped to the deck.

Bunkering in Durban and spending Christmas day at anchor just outside - set sail into the Gulf...do I need to mention all the ports Basra, Kuwait, & soforth...

A good four to five months plodding around all the ports and the young junior engineer, first time at sea wasnt impressed with all the sand and the heat. However, the biggest bugbear was to come swinging around the anchor for 30 odd days outside the Port of Karamsha...bored all the old sea dogs will know exactly

That day came to be called in to port, discharge the cargo, werent allowed ashore, werent allowed on deck - big hoo ha - set sail we received the good news - calling into Durban for bunkers - and thenrunning light home. Oh, brilliant - arrived in Durban on the bunkering pier, bunkered, the atmosphere in the bar of the City of Columbo you could cut with a knife. The ship was transferring cargo from the City of London to do another run into the Gulf - the said Junior engineer and 4th engineer were doing watch - (remember the 4-8 watch) for those old seadogs....Well, on the City of Columbo she had what was known as gun port doors on the side of the engineroom - just above waterline level - these could be easily opened and it was found by extending three broomshanks with some electricians tape and a brush on the end one could paint a Swastika on the side of the next ship the one that was discharging cargo SO THIS WAS DONE...

Gun port doors shut, junior/4th engineer chuckled - destroyed all evidence and finished off the watch.

Four days later, we were summoned into the bar by the old man - bear in mind the old man was ex-Royal Navy strict is not the word for it, but, he was fair. The words strill ring out - I DONT WISH TO KNOW WHICH PARTY DID IT but THE WHOLE ENGINEERING STAFF ARE GOING TO LOSE A DAY'S WAGES he didnt even mention the crime. He just about turned and left us all in the bar.

We owned up... and for our sins it cost of two whole barrels of Harp Lager each plus a supply of spirits on the bar as well and for our sins we even had to bring the barrels up from the chillroom.

Must admit - we did all have a good laugh in the bar afterwards - ah happy memories but not of the Gulf.
Too hot and too much sand.

:-[

Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD

Pat Matthews · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2007, 11:34:20 am »

One could always replace it with a black-on-red smiley face, perhaps tilted at 45°?
:) :) :)

PM

Ghost in the shell · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2007, 02:47:06 pm »

lol im sure that would go well !

pat is that you from RC Groups?

sheerline · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2007, 08:31:44 pm »

Perhaps a compromise on the symbol could be reached. As the powers that be, appear to wish to control our very thoughts these days, perhaps they could permit its display but it could be forbidden and even illegal to think of the Nazi regime whilst veiwing it! Beaurocrats appeased, modellers happy, everyone puts toys back in pram.

polaris · « **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2007, 11:45:15 am »

Dear All,

I think we should call them Brusselcrats... by definition, a "Brusselcrat"...

One of countless thousands of other overpaid gravy-train riders with nothing else to do other than invent obscure and mostly irrelevant legislation. This legislation is mainly applicable to any country other than France, and mostly aimed at Britain where it is tested to see what happens! - Britain being the only country to actually kowtow to these many 'tons' of mostly irrelevant legislation because the people have no say in it's junta type Govt., rarely stand up for themselves, are easily led, and mostly apathetic!!! - therefore a perfect testing ground!

Regards, Bernard2

OneBladeMissing · « **Reply #21 on:** February 13, 2007, 12:35:31 pm »

"The new European rules on the sale of cabbages has 26,253 words"!
..... and the rules were written by cabbages!
As Harry Hill might say "What are the chances of that happening, eh?"

White Ensign · « **Reply #22 on:** February 13, 2007, 12:41:25 pm »

Bernard- welcome to the playground of discarded politicians, called Europe. To give them a feeling of "Still being important" it was decided to found an own parlament, based in Brussel....

(Don`t think it is in Germany much better than in the UK...)

Jörg

P.S.: Now I have to add this again...

tigertiger · « **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2007, 02:50:13 pm »

Quote from: polaris on February 13, 2007, 11:45:15 am

I think we should call them Brusselcrats... by definition, a "Brusselcrat"...

Never mind the cabbages, call them Brusselcrats and they will be sprouting everywhere ::) ::)

sheerline · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2007, 05:54:14 pm »

Polaris... you have summed the whole thing up in one, we Brits deserve all we get because we just keep taking the b.llsh.t they throw at us and allow it to stick.
There was this story about the people who are 'in charge' and how they got there:
One day, all the parts of the human body were discussing who should be in charge and would therefore contol all the bodily functions. The brain said "naturally I should be in charge as I decide everything and contol all bodily movements". The hands said "No, it should be me because if I do everything for the body" The legs then argued that without them (legs), the body would go nowhere and then argument spread to all the other body parts with everyone asserting his importance. In the midst of this furore, the bum chimed in and said "if you don't put me in charge, I will go on strike" Naturally, all the other body parts rejected this idea and mocked the poor thing so without further ado, it went on strike.
Nobody really cared too much until a few days later signals began to crop up in the brain. As time went by, the brain began to panic as more and more signals of increasing intensity were being delivered. It wasn't too long before it could no longer cope and became erratic and sent the wrong signals to all the other body parts. Eventually all systems began to shut down as the pressing demands from the rear began to take precedence over all other matters.
Eventually the body said "ok, ok you can be in charge but for Gods sake, start working again!" And so it went back to work and there was great relief all round.
It just goes to prove, you don't have to be important to be in charge, you just need to be an "xxxxx"!!

News:

Author Topic: More about the swastika ban (Read 7926 times)

Stavros

bigfella

Cargo