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Author Topic: ADVICE ON WHAT TO MODEL FOR A NEW BOY, PLEASE.  (Read 6082 times)

steamboatwilly

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ADVICE ON WHAT TO MODEL FOR A NEW BOY, PLEASE.
« on: March 27, 2010, 06:57:21 pm »

Just retired,I would like to build a steam boat. I would appreciate being able to contact somebody who models in steam just to find out the  basics like  where do I start.  Do I buy a kit or scratch build, how do you determine boiler size relative to the length of boat, etc. Any pointers in the right direction would be most welcome. Many thanks.
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Underpressure

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Re: ADVICE ON WHAT TO MODEL FOR A NEW BOY, PLEASE.
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2010, 07:08:51 pm »

Welcome to the wonderful world of steam and welcome to the forum.

I guess a lot depends on what your previous model building experience is. If you've built other models, cars, planes, trains or boats and you are happy to scratch build, then that is a nice way to go. Alternatively, you can buy a fibreglass hull and some plans, a kit suitable for steam or buy a completed model and convert it.

What size of model do you want? The size and style of model dictates to size and type of steam plant. Obviously a 26" long Clyde Puffer or 32" long Windermere launch require different plants to a 50" long tug.

Let us know your preference and we'll see what we can do to assist.

Neil

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Colin Bishop

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Re: ADVICE ON WHAT TO MODEL FOR A NEW BOY, PLEASE.
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2010, 07:15:29 pm »

Model Boats magazine published an excellent six part series on getting started in model steam by Richard Simpson starting in November 2008 with a couple of subsequent follow ups. Richard's articles were based around commercial offerings rather than building your own plant. If you subscribe to the magazine you can see them online in the digital back editions or else you can buy the back issues from Model Boats either from the contacts given in the magazine or via the website http://www.modelboats.co.uk/ 

Richard is a member of this Forum under the ID Bunkerbarge.

Colin
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steamboatwilly

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Re: ADVICE ON WHAT TO MODEL FOR A NEW BOY, PLEASE.
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2010, 07:34:01 pm »

Thank you both for your replies.  Past experience is Keil craft kits when at school. The idea of a 50 inch tug boat sounds good, so may we use that suggestion as a starting point.  Thanks
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: ADVICE ON WHAT TO MODEL FOR A NEW BOY, PLEASE.
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2010, 08:11:25 pm »

There is also the option of an open launch type of model which could be a lake launch such as a Windermere type of boat or a more working boat model such as the amazing boats our Bernard puts together.

There are some advantages of open hulls over enclosed models such as tugs and cargo ships such as the access is considerably easier for a first time steamer so having a play around with the steam plant is a lot easier and there is a tremendous amount of satisfaction in actually watching the steam engine in operation as well as being able to see the entire steam plant which can be made to look very attractive with the polished brass and wood or, as in Bernards case,  very realistically weathered.

I have actually just taken Bernards advice and purchased a large ready built open hull which I am going to fit out with a steam plant and make into a working boat.

Another excellent type of model to start off with are the kits that accept an open steam plant and so making the job of putting it together that bit more straightforward.  Two very good examples of these are the Krick Borkum and the Krick Victoria models, both of which are perfect when powered with a twin oscillator to give a relatively simple project to get you off the ground.  Suitable plants for this would be the Graupner unit as sold by a couple of UK vendors, a second hand Cheddar boiler and twin oscillator, sometimes seen on eBay, a plant from Monahan steam models in California, a 'V' twin oscillator from Stuart Turner attached to a suitable boiler or a complete plant from someone like John Hemmens.

There are plenty of options but the open hull model is probably a good idea to start you off.

If you do decide to go with a tug then your options are either a kit or a scratch build model.  The kits could be something such as a Model Slipway Envoy or Assurance class or a Caldercraft Resolve, all of which lend themselves to steam plant relatively easily however there are plenty more options.
I would have a look around at any clubs in your area and see what others have built and attend shows such as the Model Engineering Show in Harrogate in May.  You’ll see plenty of steam models there.  Also the Kirklees Club are having a steam day at their venue in Batley, West Yorkshire, on the 23rd May, when it is hoped that a good selection of steam boat models will be on display and in operation. 
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Underpressure

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Re: ADVICE ON WHAT TO MODEL FOR A NEW BOY, PLEASE.
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2010, 08:33:22 pm »

I would say BB has pretty much covered it  :-))

With all due respect, I think a scratch build would be a pretty serious task to undertake at this stage, a big tug kit would be more straightforward. The downside of a big tug, and I speak from experience here, is that when ballasted they weigh a TON! Well around 50 lbs anyway.

I think an open boat like the Borkum would be an excellent place to start and allows for a lot of individuality, just look at Berhard's models. However, if your set on the big tug route, then in addition to the models suggested Mountfleet have the Cruiser, Caldercraft the Marie Felling or the Imara (single prop version).

Neil

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steamboatwilly

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Re: ADVICE ON WHAT TO MODEL FOR A NEW BOY, PLEASE.
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2010, 08:44:14 pm »

Neil, thanks for reply. Will look at the options you list. Could you kindly tell me how I can look at these models of Bernhard as you suggest. Many Thanks. Will
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Underpressure

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Re: ADVICE ON WHAT TO MODEL FOR A NEW BOY, PLEASE.
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2010, 08:51:07 pm »

Will, just have a look at any of Bernhard's threads, there are always pictures of his steam plants and boats.

You never know, he may even post some pictures for you on this thread.........

Did you get that hint Bernhard?
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: ADVICE ON WHAT TO MODEL FOR A NEW BOY, PLEASE.
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2010, 01:08:49 pm »

just click on this link Willy:

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22198.0

The boats that Bernard put together are some of the best I've seen and if I could build one half as good I'd be happy!
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: ADVICE ON WHAT TO MODEL FOR A NEW BOY, PLEASE.
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2010, 01:25:51 pm »

....and just to show you how diverse the same model can be made have a look at my own Borkum build by a gentleman pretty much from the box but with some nice additional woodwork and then there's the alternative on the link below.

http://dampfundmehr.de/bilder/pinasse/pinasse.htm


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Mike John

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Re: ADVICE ON WHAT TO MODEL FOR A NEW BOY, PLEASE.
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2011, 12:02:25 am »

I wrote an article on this recently. Here it is:

It's a fact most model makers start their career with a kit. In this world of the Internet, we have a wide variety of choices when it comes to buying kits. There is also a vast number of plans if you wish to build from scratch. There has never been so much access to information, products and tips.
 
Early kits were not much more than a collection of wood in a box which you had to mark out and cut. In about 1975, a friend of mine stayed with us and his father had given him a model speedboat in a kit. There were plans, a pile of balsa wood, a prop and shaft and a tiny little fuel tank. These days kits are already cut out precisely to the shapes required and it is a matter of putting it all together, which still can be a challenge. Some kits still have the same old timber in a box.
 
For a first model you should choose something that is fairly simple to put together. Small is not necessarily simple. Companies, like Midwest Products, give an idea of the skill level required for their kits. Another thing to consider is will your radio equipment and power supplies fit in the model. Very few kits include the drive motor and next to none include the radio gear. Usually the running hardware (which includes the propeller shaft, rudder and propeller) is included but not always. It's a good idea to check that the size of these components are fairly standard so that if you need to replace a propeller, for example, it won't be too hard to get. Often the fittings kit which includes all the details of the boat like lights, bollards, cleats and steering wheel, is not included.

If you build from scratch, you also need to know that your radio gear will fit within the planned size of the boat.

I just purchased the Fantail launch kit by Midwest Products. All the components are cut to size and the kit includes the running gear, but it does not include the steam engine. The steam engine comes in both pre-soldered ready to go in about an hour and as a kit engine which requires soldering. The right propeller for this engine is in the kit and the engine is the right size for the length of boat. The only trouble is that this engine is extremely hard to find in stock just at the moment.

You need to look at your skill level. Your skill level is governed by how much information you have or, in other words, it's about knowing exactly what to do. Doing it can be the less difficult bit. These days with forums and online publications, finding out what to do is less difficult and most things can be learnt. It's about having a go. I have found the boatbuilding community to be tremendously supportive and helpful. You just have to ask. I was editing an article for Duckworks today, and the writer of the article realised he should have asked more questions at the start instead of trying to work everything out himself. He put this in the things he learnt at the end of his article. (The article is called Blueskies and is coming up in early May.)

Another thing to consider is that you must be able to transport the model. A one metre yacht, for example, is hard to get into a sedan.

When you get the kit, and this applies to buying plans as well, read the plans and instructions carefully. This is obvious. But, what I like to do is to read, walk away, think on it and have a fresh look over the next few days. Don't stress, it will become clearer and quite often it becomes clear as you make a start. Try to check that you also have all the parts before you start. Do a dry run with the parts before you stick anything solid with glue. With newcomers the plans and instructions are a very important part of the kit. Manufacturers are aware that their plans and instructions will put their kit in a negative or positive light and so these days they take more care with these parts of the kit. The information that comes with the kit is the fun part. I may not be the best boat maker in the world, but I am good with the information side of the hobby. The more you get, the easier it is. (It was technology and information that played a huge part in World War II. Radar, sonar and code breaking were vital to the outcome.)

As far as plans go, there are so many on the Internet. For example, Model Boats Magazine has their plans on the site called MyHobbyStore. There is something for everyone. You just have to find it. You need to be aware that some plans can vary tremendously in quality and complexity. Many producers give plans a star grading system and you should be able to find something within your skills and abilities.

A hard chine hull is an easier type of hull to build for a beginner. It is also a cheaper form of construction. Round bilge hulls are a little bit more difficult to build. A round hull can be made from solid block, put together from laminated blocks or framed and strip planked. Stitch and glue is another option for model boats.

To build from kit or scratch? I think build a kit first so you get an idea of how a boat goes together. You could then build from plans using similar methods. This way you gradually build up your knowledge. Keep in mind though some kits are extremely complicated and challenging. You need to choose the right kit. Remember ask for advice on forums before buying. There is the list of forums on the bottom of my links page. The important thing is to make a start.
 
Mike John
http://www.rusticmodelboats.com/
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frazer heslop

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Re: ADVICE ON WHAT TO MODEL FOR A NEW BOY, PLEASE.
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2011, 08:40:20 pm »

Hi,If you fancy scratch building have a look at Basil Harley's Miranda as theres a drawing for the boat and a drawing available for a suitable steam plant and both are reasonably easy to build and perform quite well and the build articles should be available.
best wishes
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