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[Ian Robins]

Hi,
Has anyone got any new boiler testing rules as it was rumoured that the bar/litre limit was to be raised so model boilers would not need testing although it would be advised to do so
ro88o

[barriew]

There is a very good explanation of the new rules on the Paddleducks web site forum. The rules have been simplified and agreed by Insurance companies, MPBA etc.

Barrie

http://www.paddleducks.co.uk

You need to look under Downloads, Steam Articles. Its the last item in the list.

[BB STE]

Hi Robbo,

With regards to your enquiry about boiler testing.  The MPBA have just had their NEC meeting where there was a long discussion on boiler testing.  Firstly yes you do need to continue testing your boilers and provide a current certificate if and when you sail your steam boats if requested.

Ste and I, (Kath Jones Gen. Sec. MPBA), will be coming down to the Mayhem weekend where I will bring you some more info if you wish.

Ste is looking forward to having a chat with both you and Martin from Wicksteed MBC about the Scale finals this year.

We will be bringing some boats down with and are looking forward to having a sail.

Bye for now, Kath & BB STE (Ste Jones).

[justboatonic]

Firstly yes you do need to continue testing your boilers and provide a current certificate if and when you sail your steam boats if requested.

Sorry to be pedantic, but this reads as its not mandatory, only advisory. Is this right?

[HS93 (RIP)]

BB STE

  Can you not just put the info on here??


Peter

[BB STE]

Hi All Steam enthusiasts,

I have been doing some further research into your questions about the steam rules and or testing of boilers. 

If you would like full details please go to www.mpba.org.uk
Even though the website is being upgraded, you should still be able to access the site and then follow the link TECHNICAL, followed by Steam rules.

These guidelines have been used by the MPBA for the last 10 years and are approved by our insureres

But generally speaking; with regards to any member of the MPBA and its affiliated clubs, who sail steam powered models you must, if sailing a steam powered model , ensure that you have your boilers tested. If you intend to sail your boats on any MPBA waters, please make sure you have a valid test certificate handy, just in case you are asked for it.

I hope this is of help to all you steam enthusiasts.  should you need any further help please e-mail me through BB STE's e-mail or check out the MPBA year book for contact phone numbers, e-mail or snail mail info'.

Happy sailing, Kath Jones (Gen Sec MPBA).

[HS93 (RIP)]

Hi Robbo,

With regards to your enquiry about boiler testing.  The MPBA have just had their NEC meeting where there was a long discussion on boiler testing.  Firstly yes you do need to continue testing your boilers and provide a current certificate if and when you sail your steam boats if requested.

).

So you are now saying that nothing has changed in the last 10 years.? but the mpba are only now discussing it  ? I think you will find the rules changed 2006 by the HSE so it may be an idea for the MPBA to get up to date ..

sorry for this but on reading your response I thought they must of changed again.

I agree with barriew  Go to Paddleducks and look at the up to date info.

Peter

[AlexC]

Hi all,

Interesting reply from Kath Jones. (BB STE)

A couple of points though: -

1.   The article on Paddleducks does not state that the MPBA have adopted the detailed standard.

2. The MPBA will, however, accept boilers tested under the rules laid out in the article, however, this does present a couple of anomalies......

Under clause 1.2 of the MPBA rules it clearly states that they will accept test certificates issued by the bodies mentioned in the above document.

Under Clause 3.4 of the MPBA rules it also clearly states that ALL copper boilers/pressure vessels are to be tested every 2 years, for renewal after the initial 2 year period.

The Test standard referred to in the above document issues certificates with 4 year validity periods...whereas the MPBA certificates are only valid for 2 years.

The anomaly is...if someone presents the MPBA with a certificate from, lets say the NORTHERN FEDERATION of MODEL ENGINEERS in it's 3rd year...(still valid under the N.FED.RULES) does this now not qualify under MPBA rules......if it does (and clause 1.2 says it will) then surely they must change their own standards to bring them into line with the rest......perhaps this is one of the items discussed at their NEC meeting.

There is no mention under the MPBA rules of any exemptions for boilers under 1.5 bar/litre capacity, wheres there is under the rules discussed in the above document.
Again, if a member of the N.FED. came along with one of these exempt boilers....would they be accepted as legal under MPBA rules?....their rule book suggest they would not.....the N.Fed says they are legal......ANOMALY.

Have the MPBA done anything to clarify this?

Finally....the exemption above (boilers under 1.5 bar/ltr capacity) only applies to the need for a pressure test certificate...it does not imply exemption from a steam test.
It is certainly the case that a lot of  clubs/organisations would still require a valid steam test certificate....under the terms of their insurance. (not all insurers have adopted the NEW rules)

Perhaps Kath Jones could clarify these issues for us.

Best Regards.

AlexC

[barriew]

I think it only fair to point out that the article on Paddleducks was NOT the regulations, only an interpretation of them in 'simple' terms. It is certainly my understanding that the MPBA were party to those new regulations, including the exemption from pressure testing.

Barrie

[AlexC]

Hi again,

I am acutely aware that the article on Paddleducks was not the regulations (verbatim), since these are contained in a 20 page document, but rather an extract  of the salient points as they apply to a large proportion of model boat boilers.

The New Regulations document (full) covers the testing requirements, and test inspector qualification requirements for all model boilers up to 1100 bar/ltr capacity and, as such, encompasses model steam locomotive boilers, traction engine boilers etc in both steel and copper.....a lot of this will/does not necessarily apply to smaller model boat boilers and the Paddleducks document is aimed at explaining the new rules as applicable for this section of the modelling community. They are none the less accurate.

The MPBA may well have been involved in the negotiations which led to these new rules, and I am not suggesting for one minute that they were not, however, they are not specifically mentioned in the list of participants.
If they were involved, and if they are supposedly in full agreement with the new rules, then why does their own rule book not reflect this? and why are there still some glaring anomalies?

Perhaps a rewrite of their rule book is overdue?

Best regards.

AlexC

[SteamboatPhil]

Hi
Re boiler testing. The guidelines set out by the MPBA were adopted into our general rules nearly 20 years ago. It has been felt at the AGM and the NEC meetings that the rules are quite clear, and as they are approved by the insurance company that the MPBA employ, we did not need to re-look at what are quite clear and defined rules used in MPBA events. I know that the Northern and Southern federation are adopting the bar litre chart, and have updated their rules accordingly, and we will accept certificates issued by them. However at present we will be staying with our rules as we feel
that change is not necessary, this is not to say that we will not look at adopting the bar litre chart in the future. I will be at the Mayhem weekend should anyone wish to come and chat. (oh and the MPBA were not invited to participate in the Northern / Southern Fed discussions)
Phil Abbott (aka Phlabbott)
MPBA National Straight Running Chairman
Hon Sec Blackheath Model Power boat Club

[HS93 (RIP)]

There is a new update on  Paddleducks thats worth a look ,after you have read it you will know why the MPBA is thought of the way it is.

Peter