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Author Topic: new to rc  (Read 10683 times)

boilerhole

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new to rc
« on: December 26, 2011, 10:21:05 pm »

hi and merry xmas to you all
to start with i have little knowledge of rc equipment or the working
i have built yorkshire cobles for many years and decided to make one that would take a motor and other equipment
so what i would like to fit is  lipo batteries cos there thin and long to hide under the deck  a motor that would turn slow because yorkshirecobles are not fast
i have a technobot sound card which says a bec reciever should be fitted with a 6v battery and no more!!!!
i would like a simple reciever probably a planet 5   2.4 ghz
coble size is 40 inch by 9 inch so if any ideas as to what i require it would be appreciated
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2011, 10:43:02 pm »


Is this you?!?   ;)      http://youtu.be/Fe752_z49Mo


   What size are your models? 
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boilerhole

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2011, 11:19:45 pm »

hi martin
no its not ian is a good freind who got me started and helped me a lot all those years ago and still makes some of the finest cobles around
but neither of us have done a rc model of one in fact i have never seen one so its virgin territory for this kind of mdel hence the help needed
    cheers boilerhole
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boilerhole

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2011, 11:47:32 pm »

sorry  dont know if i said but overall size is 40 inch x 9 inch beam and 6.5 draft
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boilerhole

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2011, 12:13:40 am »

SEA LOVER
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boilerhole

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2011, 12:15:22 am »

SEA LOVER 2
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derekwarner

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2011, 04:01:28 am »

Goodness boilerhole >>:-( ....you have some explanation on this work below....... O0

Derek ...... :-)).....

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nick_75au

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2011, 05:17:57 am »

Hi,
Beautiful model,

The receiver runs on 6 volts maximum, so a 4 cell pack is the normal way to run them, some speed controller's have a circuit that supplies its voltage from the main battery pack regardless of the main pack voltage to the receiver. So in that case you do not need the 4 cell pack.
You can run what ever battery type you like, the only caveat being Lipo's should have either a low voltage cut as part of the speed control or a separate LV  cut/warning indicator. Other battery types have a much greater tolerance to being discharged completely.

Brushed or brush-less motors can be used they both have low speed types, I would suggest a Brush-less motor in the order of 700 -1000 Kv and run on a 7.4 volt Li-po, a 22 mm diameter 1000 Kv out-runner will drive a 40 mm prop at about 6000 RPM, a Brushed motor set-up should have similar RPM to give the performance you desire. Say a Graupner Speed 500 E, not any other type of speed motor  ok2 There are other vendors that have similar low RPM motors.

Cheers
Nick
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boilerhole

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2011, 06:57:15 pm »

hi nick
thanks for the info will certainly look into the info you gave as i really have'nt a clue
derek not sure what explanation i can give to your reply but please tell and i will try to give answers
one question while im replying is the sound  card says use a bec and a esc !!! are these part of the reciever or ami totally up the wrong path
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nick_75au

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2011, 08:17:31 pm »

The  ESC (Electronic Speed Controller) is what controls the speed of your motor, it can vary the speed and reverse the motor.

The BEC ( Battery Eliminator Circuit) is part of most ESC's. You dont need a BEC speed control, you can use a separate 4.8 volt receiver pack, the advantage of the BEC, simplicity of the wiring and better regulation of the voltage.

The sound unit can not handle more than 6 volts on the receiver connection, some people use a 6 volt Gel Cell battery to power the whole boat, and this is a problem for the sound card as a Gel can be more than 6 volts fully charged. The main power can be 6-12 volts

TO make your Coble RC the minimum you need electronicly, Transmitter, Receiver, ESC with BEC, motor, Servo and motor battery. if your ESC does not have BEC then a 4 cell receiver battery is needed

Have you got the instructions handy for the sound unit, there are diagrams of how to connect everything and if you don't understand it I/other forum members can explain what each connection is for.

Sorry if my previous post was a bit technical, It's hard to judge level of experience on a forum sometimes :-)

Cheers
Nick
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john s 2

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2011, 08:23:24 pm »

I hope this can be of help. The esc stands for electronic speed controller. From what ive read on the tecbots site, your sound card will plug into the receiver then the lead on the esc which normally goes straight into the receiver plugs into the sound card. This is to send the rec signals to the sound card to tell it to make noise then the signal goes to the esc as well so it supplys varying power to the motor. A Bec stands for battery eliminator circuit. The rec needs power to run. Some Escs have a built in bec which can power the rec via the lead which plugs into the Rec. If your Esc does not have a Bec then power can be supplied by 4 aa cells. The lead from the battery box can be plugged into a spare channel on the Rec. The tech bots card is set up to run on a bec power supply. 4.8v to 6v. Hope this helps a bit. If not or any worries pm me your number and i will talk you through things. John.    
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boilerhole

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2011, 08:32:11 pm »

cheers john
yes it seems to make sence so i am looking for the bits andbobs that i need to give it a go
cheers nick sorry i seemed so vague but i know where your coming from now thanks alot for your help hopefully once all together will post some more pics of how it turned out
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CODY614

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2011, 08:57:04 pm »

I don't want to Hi-Jack this thread...Because there is some good stuff going on I'd like to ask some question?
 I've been looking at using some of the new motors that are out there Like Out Runners and such...But I've run into a bit of snag.
All the "Universal Couplings" I've been looking at post a warning.
"NOT FOR USE WITH A BRUSHLESS MOTOR?" Is this due to RPM constraints?


Jeff
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boilerhole

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2011, 09:17:40 pm »

good question cody which i would like an answer to aswell asi have had to put a universal coupling in my project and could see ther  would be more strain on it with a high speed motor
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derekwarner

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2011, 09:45:55 pm »

boilerhole ....... :D ...explanation required? ...in this case is simply a term of admiration of a quality completed model  O0 ....if you have any photographic images of the build they would be appreciated as we all learn from a thread that results in such models

I have no real experience in the black art of electronics or things.....and you have stated that a Cobble does not   require high speed   %%
It doesn't look like a speed boat or a racing boat   <*<  to me........I would be most surprised if your vessel would need 6000 RPM  >>:-( , however I do agree that if an ESC can be $ funded it would provide good scale control over the vessel speed together with a reserve of power to counter any potential issue where you needed greater speed

Are there any similar sized Cobble hulls available from kit manufacturers?....possibly a call to some of the resellers may provide an answer & then ask for a recommendation on an electric drive system

Failing this you could post the dimensions & displacement weight of your build for Mayhem members to offer their thoughts for a "low speed" electric drive system... %)........Derek
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Derek Warner

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nick_75au

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2011, 10:46:50 pm »

I don't want to Hi-Jack this thread...Because there is some good stuff going on I'd like to ask some question?
 I've been looking at using some of the new motors that are out there Like Out Runners and such...But I've run into a bit of snag.
All the "Universal Couplings" I've been looking at post a warning.
"NOT FOR USE WITH A BRUSHLESS MOTOR?" Is this due to RPM constraints?


Jeff

Due to the almost universally accepted myth that all brush less motors are high speed overpowered beasts of things {:-{

I have a brushed motor, 540 sized, with a kv of 8300, the coupling would destroy itself if the motor was run at 2 volts %%

If you were setting up a FE boat then you would not use a universal coupling, brush-less or brushed ;)

Regardless of the motor if the RPM is below 10 000 and the prop was below say 45-50 mm then a universal should hold up OK.

The Brushed and brush-less motors I suggested will not damage a universal :-))

Quote from: derekwarner_decoy
It doesn't look like a speed boat or a racing boat     to me........I would be most surprised if your vessel would need 6000 RPM   

6000 RPM unloaded motor RPM with a 40 mm prop, works well in a few of my boats springer etc. correspondingly lower for a larger prop, faster for a smaller prop ok2 As you said judicious use of the throttle for normal cruising :-)

Have you seen my article on Brushless for scale boats ?

Pic below is my brushless springer internals, 1000 Kv motor on 6 volts, 40 mm prop, Universal, and the mind boggling peak speed of 3.2 Kph measured with a GPS ;D

Cheers
Nick




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CODY614

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2011, 11:20:56 pm »


Have you seen my article on Brushless for scale boats ?

Pic below is my brushless springer internals, 1000 Kv motor on 6 volts, 40 mm prop, Universal, and the mind boggling peak speed of 3.2 Kph measured with a GPS ;D

Cheers
Nick




Got a link for that Nick?

Jeff
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2011, 12:20:02 am »

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CODY614

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nick_75au

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2011, 01:11:45 am »

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20084.0;attach=89307

I wonder whether this should be added to andrewh's thread?

Looks like we are derailing boilerholes thread though....

Nick
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CODY614

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2011, 01:30:04 am »

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=20084.0;attach=89307

I wonder whether this should be added to andrewh's thread?

Looks like we are derailing boilerholes thread though....

Nick
HEHEHE...I tried not to... ok2

Jeff
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derekwarner

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2011, 01:46:11 am »

Hullo boilerhole & Nick.........no  :embarrassed: ...I think we are still on track here :-))

Again Nick ........I have no real ELECTRONIC back art wizadary knowledge  >>:-(.. but a few basic principals [physics] still apply  O0

I am making two broard assumptions here but these can be reapplied to alternate scales & prototype engine speeds and so are offered as an example only  8)

Assumption 1. the scale of the Cobble  is 1:12 [1/12 scale]
Assumption 2. the single lunger petrol engine in the Cobble was one of those belt around the pulley to start the engine & had a top RPM of say 200  {-)........

Rule 4. Scale thrust requires that the RPM of the propeller on the scale model be increased by the square root of the scale factor

If the scale is 1:12……then the √12 = 3.46…so with an original 200 RPM engine speed multipled 3.46 = ~~~~692 RPM on the model shaft

I would be interested to read the set of calcs from boilerhole based upon his actual vessel to the scale & engine speed etc........  {-) .....Derek
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derekwarner

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2011, 04:51:33 am »

Here is an image of an original Cobble hulled vessel courtesy of GOGGLE ........the single cylinder 'lunger' engine  :embarrassed: is located under the wooden box.....& leading to a very small prop  ;D

http://www.coast-alive.eu/sites/default/files/article/images/715.JPG

GOGGLE also offers original example [post 1900] sized Cobble vessels as approx 30' in length...so that reduces the scale to approx 1:10...but this has little effect in the scaling of the engine speed without knowledge of the prototype %) ........

The following links are typical of the single cylinder 'lunger' engine   ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxtKzz6CvCw&feature=related ...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV6ZZ82shdU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7l_Vy9BfG4&feature=related

Derek
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nick_75au

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2011, 04:59:54 am »

What sized prop would one of the lugger engines drive?

Nick
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derekwarner

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Re: new to rc
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2011, 05:21:01 am »

 :embarrassed: Nick .....I am not able to state in a factual sense....  %) ...however remembering through the eyes of an 8 year old boy some 50++++ years ago... {-) ...I seem to remember that the diameter of the flywheel was approx the same as the diameter of propeller

Now when we research propellers as originally used in small steam engined vessels of the early 1900's we find a ratio of approx 1.25+..... pitch x 1 diameter...from this I suspect that original propellers for steam engines were reused in vessels propelled by those new fan dangled  >>:-( petrol engines  <*<

Again a few assumptions......but they may help boilerhole with some answers............ :o .....Derek
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