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[thelegos]

I've been building and restoring boats for a few years, much of my fleet is older models from Veron, Aerokits, HMM, Adamcraft etc. This is driven by nostalgia, a love of the style and a real preference for working in wood.

Over the last few months I've avidly followed builds by Patternmaker and Ted Welding (amongst others) but principally the lovely work of these skilled men has got me interested in building a wooden steam launch or possibly a Streamlinia lookalike.

After looking around for a while I recently took the plunge and bought a Stuart Double 10 with reversing gear off fleabay, it seems to be in pretty good condition, turns freely and smoothly with no evidence of play in the bearing. Although I have noticed a few nuts missing I don't think it's been stripped in the past. I've ordered a book about building the single cylinder version which hopefully will give information on thread types, nut/olive sizes and setting up to run smoothly. I shall try it on compressed air but have not yet decided whether to strip it down completely.

My second purchase has been an old mahogany bead headboard and bandsaw which will provide recycled timber.

Next on the shopping list is a suitable boiler and here I'm looking for advice as to what size would best suit the Double 10. I will go for horizontal which gives me more flexibility and I prefere the appearance. Gas burner is a must and I'm reading up on safety aspects and the need for proper testing and certification, preference is for good used at this time because of price and it may compliment the motor.

I've still got others boats to finish before summer so this is a long term project, I also have much to learn and don't feel this can be rushed into! Any advice and guidance available through Mayhem will be much appreciated and well received.

Thanks in advance!

Roger

My powerplant

[derekwarner]

Roger....the Stuart Double 10 is a large engine...there are a number very knowledgeable members on Mayhem who have built these engines from scratch who will be able to offer all the advice you need

I would be inclined not to run test the engine even on compressed air [with some lubrication oil] until you have set up a Q&A dialogue with someone like oonya/2 [George]

With respect to boiler sizing, the MacSteam web site has a simple bore x stroke calculator to help you understand the actual steam capacity you will require

The recycled mahogany also sounds good......keep us posted as your project progresses........Derek

[thelegos]

Thanks Derek, I've noticed George as a regular contributor and great source of advice regarding steam so hopefully will be in contact. I'll also check out MacSteam for some calculations.

You're right, it is a large engine, slightly larger than I envisaged but I've been really taken by it and hope to be able to accommodate the size. The reference book should arrive tomorrow and hopefully be good grounding to move forward from  although experience is priceless!!

Roger

[derekwarner]

  ...Roger....just re-reading your original posting

I am sure all would agree that the purchase of a used Stuart Double 10 [dependent of cost] was a sound investment   ...as it is capable of being repaired/returned to as manufactured specification

However a purchase of a second hand boiler without certification is fraught with danger  

Earlier this week on Mayhem in the E-Bay listings was a second hand boiler with the name Stuart bandied about but with out any documentation offered...& from memory 1,000 UK pounds  

I understand model boilers when purchased from a commercial manufacturer are expensive ...but you get what you pay for

Prior to my boiler purchase in 2005, I asked the manufacturer [Sandy Campbell from ACS Engineering - Scotland] to explain the UK requirements for such boiler certification...as I understood that the Australian Standards were a mirror of the UK nominations

Sandy came back with ...."Pressure Equipment Regulations 1999 SI No 1999/2001 ("PER") PED 97/23/EC...& as such I have had my boiler re certified in Australia....but only as I was able to confirm the previous histroy etc

Sorry if this appears to be a little long winded   ....but the traceable history & certification detail of a second hand boiler is needed prior to handing over the hard earned $.......... Derek

[HS93 (RIP)]

I would steer clear of second hand boilers unless you know the builder and history and it comes with a Valid independent  test certificate, there are some good buys on ebay but there is a lot of rubbish, some years ago the way boilers where fired improved a lot of old boilers are inefficient in this area also sometimes buy time you have bought a boiler a set of boiler fittings a decent pressure gauge plus a way of firing it one from MacSteam does not seem that dear, they are efficient and most of all compact which is handy for a boat installation.take your time look about and don't rush the boiler is very important to getting a reliable set up.happy steamming when you get it going.

Peter

[ooyah/2]

Hi Roger,
Glad to see that you have taken up the steam road.
You seam to have made a good purchase with your D10 as it would appear that the builder knew what he was doing.
This can be seen by the reverse gear, he has used steel for the quadrants and drag links as against the Stuart method which over time becomes sloppy and the engine timing goes out and he has used a hand wheel reverser which is unusual but a nice touch.
However if you wish to reverse the engine by servo that will have to be altered but not a big job.

My Advice is to give it a good clean with Paraffin, get a baking tray, or similar, with a 1/2" brush and don't be afraid to slosh it all over.
Dry it of by ether cloth or blow dry, compressor or hair dryer, and oil it all over with car engine oil, buy a long nosed oil can which will allow you to get into awkward corners ( DO NOT USE 3/1 OIL)
Replace all the missing nuts and bolts as required.

I would then set it up on the compressor to see if it runs, shut down the needle valve on the lubricator and make sure that you inject plenty of oil into the steam line, give it a good run, about 5 mins , no longer as you will have run out of lubrication to the cylinders.
It would be even better if you had an on line lubricator in the air line which would allow a longer run.
When you receive the book on building a vertical steam engine it tells you how to time the engine.
Most of the nuts and bolts on the D10 are 7ba, these can be bought from Blackgates Engineering, I would suggest that you get their Cat.

Running on air isn't the same as running on steam, on air, all can appear great, but you then run it on steam and it soon shows up where all the steam leaks are

Buying a boiler on e-bay is a lottery, only buy if it is from a known builder/ manufacturer and has a test certificate, current or out of date.
Maccsteam make boilers and although expensive it could be cheaper in the long run as Mike is a know builder with many boilers being sold World Wide.

I would recommend a 4" boiler, bigger if you can afford one.

As Peter says , take your time , don't rush into any thing and if we on the forum can help just ask.
George.

[thelegos]

Good evening and thank you all for your advice, it's much appreciated.

I hear what you say about a used boiler, ebay is always a lottery but the risk varies with the item! I looked at a number of engines and decided as you say that Stuart as a maker represented a fairly safe investment and is repairable - as well as looking great 

Derek, I looked at the Macsteam site (also mentioned by Peter) and did a few calcs on the train this morning, I decided that 3.5" was too small and judging by the degree of shortfall that 4.5" would probably be comfortable depending on the size of craft and prop pitch/dia/rpm. That sits well with George's comments.

The boiler I saw on ebay was 3.5" x 8", unused, boxed and built in 1997. The range is now sold by Cotswold Engineering as far as I can make out. It should be OK to get retested and used but probably marginal is capacity and I'd rather have a comfortable working margin than work at the top end of its capability.

The spin-off here is that the Macsteam boilers seem to represent very good value and my thoughts are moving in that direction

Thank you George for the advice on cleaning and assessing the engine, I shall do that at the weekend. I hope it's OK - I've spent a lot of my time around engines and you get a feel for these things. As in the first post I wanted something that seemed not to have been tampered with, they might be shiny and painted on the outside but you can't tell what horrors are inside - a bit like the boilers I guess !!! Could I use other degreasers (which I have) or is parafin more suited, I know some products can be harsh.

The book arrived today and is pretty comprehensive which is great and a good investment, I'll have a scan through tonight and also check out Blackgates Engineering.

Chatting to a chap at work today about it and he's got a part complete live steam loco his dad built years ago, he's bringing it in so goodness knows where all this is going

Roger

 

[pettyofficernick]

Hi there, I purchased a Maccsteam 3.5 inch horizontal boiler last year, and what a wonderfull piece of craftsmanship it is. Mike is an expert in this field and the quality of his product is second to none. When compared to other boilers on the market, his are exceptional value for money.Aftersales service is also very good, I had a problem with my burner, I phoned Mike and a replacement arrived the next day, and you cant argue with that! You will not go far wrong if you go Maccsteam.
Best of luck with your enterprise,
Regards,
Nick.

[ooyah/2]

Roger,
I have used engine degreaser in the past (GUNK) in spray form which is effective and then washed down with Paraffin but I suppose if you oil it well that would be enough as long as you brush it well in and wash it down with water and then dry it all off and liberally apply oil.
Another useful tool is a brass wire brush, you can buy them in shoe repair shops, great for getting rid of gunge.
Can't say about other degreasers but you could try a little on the engine to see what the result is.
I have gallons of paraffin that I use in my flash steamer so I am inclined to wash everything in it.

Still think that you have made a good purchase and when cleaned up will look great, just a point , these engines like big props, my tug has a 4" x 4 blade coarse prop which I made and it makes the D10 work !!
You may have to strip it down a little if all the gaskets have dried out, keep us posted, use plenty of oil..
George.

[thelegos]

Hi there, good to hear from you!
Nick, I agree, Maccsteam looks very nice and sensibly priced, I shall definitely price them up very soon including essential extras and probably a few other parts!

This weekend sees cleaning the D10 on my list. George mentioned parafin which my farther and I used for years on cars and agricultural machinery repairs but it suddenly occurred to me that I don't know where to buy it  When I was a kid living near Cambridge a chap used to come round in a big van kitted out as a walk-in mobile shop. It was fantastic and at the back there was a tank of Esso Blue parafin where we got our supply for the stoves that heated the house. The van was Jonny Call Weekly and he was the Esso Blee Dooler - some of you will think I've lost it others of more mature years will remember the catch line in the adverts 

Back to my puffer now, that needs to be finished first
 

Roger

[pettyofficernick]

Parafin is still available in a decent chandlers shop, we have one near where I live, sells all sorts. I remember Esso Blue, and its rival Aladdin, which was pink, their slogan was ' Most economical, ring for pink'.
Keep up the good work.

[ooyah/2]

Hi Roger,
I buy mine from a Garden Center in the Green house heater section, when I started buying it it was £5 for 4 litres. it's now about £10.
Long gone are the days when you were sent to the Ironmungers store with a can for paraffin which was filled from a huge tank in his back yard.
It didn't half stink in the old Valor heaters, remember them, tall round things about 2 ft high, that in modern days we now would regard them as fire hazards.

But you said that you had some degreaser, use it like you would on a car engine, leave to bight into the crud and then pressure wash it out if you have a pressure washer.
Dry it all off as previously suggested and add plenty of oil to it, won't do the engine any harm, I buy the cheapest gal of engine oil from local Auto shop and use it all around the workshop, lasts for ever.
George.

[gregk9]

If you have oil fired central heating and it is 28 second then it is to all intents and purposes kerosine which is what we call parrafin. If it is 32second then it is gas oil or diesel, also an excellent cleaner. Jerry.

[thelegos]

It didn't half stink in the old Valor heaters, remember them, tall round things about 2 ft high, that in modern days we now would regard them as fire hazards.

Fire hazard indeed George, my mum used to dry the clothes around it on a wooden clothes horse because the house was so cold and damp!!

(Cue Python jokes about living in a shoe box)

I'll try some Halfords cleaner, I've used it before on small nitro engines, works pretty well and it's clear. I have a dislike for Gunk because it is what it says - brown, gunky and leaves me feeling I need something else to clean it off 

Roger

[steamboatmodel]

If you have oil fired central heating and it is 28 second then it is to all intents and purposes kerosine which is what we call parrafin. If it is 32second then it is gas oil or diesel, also an excellent cleaner. Jerry.

I wonder how it got that we call it kerosene over here and you call it paraffin?
It used to really confuse me untill I found out what was meant by paraffin as over here paraffin is most commonly found in canning wax.
Regards,
Gerald.