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[riggers24]

I am surprised they didn't try to keep the Dolphin afloat until they could tow her in to shallower waters and see if they can determine the cause

[BarryM]

One horrible thought occured to me over the weekend. Am I right in thinking that the bow thrusters etc are controlled by a joystick in the wheelhouse. the master was in there with his son, I wonder if he was distracted in some way and caused the vessel to cross the ancour cable they were laying, I.e. explainin to his son how the job is done and looseing concentration. Or more horrendious letting his son have a go?

I hope the Norwegians find out the cause, I take it the Norwegian maritime commision is handling this, i could not find their web site.

As for salvage 3,500ft is a long way down with many tons per square inch pressure, most likley if there were any air trapped in the hull it would have imploded.

I assume mooring drilling rigs in this depth of water is not unusual, just thinking if they underestimated the weight of cable thereby making the vessel unstable. but I think they were experienced enough for that not to happen.

A tragic day for all of us who either work or have an interest in the sea and boats.

Daryl

Daryl,

The Norwegian Maritime Directorate handles investigation. Go http://www.sjofartsdir.no/en/ for details.

During A/H ops the Master sits at the aft end of the bridge overlooking the main deck with consoles either side of him. The consoles incorporate (among other things) main engine throttles, propeller pitch controls and side thruster controls. These functions, when in DP (Dynamic Positioning) mode, are controlled via a joystick. The joystick system incorporates various safety interlocks that should fail safe if there is a technical fault and geographical positioning input is from GPS or DGPS or, during cargo ops, shipborne laser systems. 

 A second seat/consoles, also overlooking the main deck is provided for the winch operator.  I really would be surprised if the Old Man allowed himself to be distracted sufficient to cause the incident to happen or would permit his son to go on the controls. Norwegian masters are a highly professional bunch and well aware that the main deck can be a highly dangerous place during A/H ops; they are unlikely to do anything that would hazard the men working on there. 

[Daryl]

Thanks for the info and the link, I'll look out for the report. Very interesting info, thanks for enlightening me on how its done.

Daryl

[Colin Bishop]

Is 3,500 feet deep correct? Sounds a lot for that area.

[martno1fan]

very sad for the families involved but goes to show these companys use ships thet are just not big enough to do the job ,allways cutting corners like in most other things in life and its allways the little guy who needs the money that suffers in the end.

[westcoaster]

I really don't understand your comment about "these companies use ships that are just not big enough to do the job" etc. It seems to me that you haven't looked at the facts. This ship is (was) modern and broadly comparable to many other AHTS working very successfully in the offshore business. To suggest at this stage, before there have been proper investigations into the tragedy, that the Company were "cutting corners" is misguided and unfair.

[BarryM]

very sad for the families involved but goes to show these companys use ships thet are just not big enough to do the job ,allways cutting corners like in most other things in life and its allways the little guy who needs the money that suffers in the end.

Can you explain in what respect this 16,000bhp, twin-screw + 2 x tunnel thrusters + 1 x azimuth thruster, 194mt bollard pull, 75m LOA, 6-month old vessel, with a 14 man crew and one of the most powerful in the North Sea was not big enough for the job?

Barry M

[Daryl]

The depth of water came from Bourbon Offshore's web site so I presime its correct.

Daryl

[martno1fan]

well seeing as the boat capsized due to the weight of the cable perhaps !!, id say it was too small for the job the power of the engines or anything else is imaterial.we shall see what the equiry has to say if they actually tell the truth that is!!.the other problem with modern ships is they rely too much on gismos and gadgets (joysticks and computers  ::)) .also a ships weelhouse is no place for kids or spectators !!.

[Daryl]

I presume they were working on this programe of exploration.

www.offshore-technology.com/projects/foinaven/

cutting edge stuff by the sound of it.

Daryl

[Daryl]

Just spotted on www.smit.com their statement concering the failed salvage operation of Bourbon Dolphin, makes interesting reading.

Daryl

[BarryM]

well seeing as the boat capsized due to the weight of the cable perhaps id say it was too small for the job the power of the engines or anything else is imaterial.we shall see what the equiry has to say if they actually tell the truth that is!!.the other problem with modern ships is they rely too much on gismos and gadgets (joysticks and computers  ::)) .also a ships weelhouse is no place for kids or spectators !!.

If you know that the boat capsized due to the weight of cable then you're several steps ahead of the Inquiry. Perhaps they will call you? How big a ship would you have used?

[riggers24]

I presume they were working on this programe of exploration.

www.offshore-technology.com/projects/foinaven/

cutting edge stuff by the sound of it.

Daryl

Where I work we made the flexible pipes in Newcastle for the Foinaven project.

www.wellstream.com

Bl00dy expensive pipes

The link below is to Bridon who make mooring lines, there is across section drawing and the different sizes of ropes
http://www.bridonltd.com/default.aspx?MarketArea=a4b2753b-c9a6-4336-a173-6adda85d6a20&ControlTypeName=bridon.controls.ExtendedProduct&ControlPath=controls%2f%2fExtendedProductApplication.ascx&EntityId=58362d3e-d6de-4cf7-b99d-c977ae8300b7

[martno1fan]

well seeing as the boat capsized due to the weight of the cable perhaps id say it was too small for the job the power of the engines or anything else is imaterial.we shall see what the equiry has to say if they actually tell the truth that is!!.the other problem with modern ships is they rely too much on gismos and gadgets (joysticks and computers  ::)) .also a ships weelhouse is no place for kids or spectators !!.

If you know that the boat capsized due to the weight of cable then you're several steps ahead of the Inquiry. Perhaps they will call you? How big a ship would you have used?

sorry i re edited my post i meant to say perhaps it was due to the weight of the cable,as regards what size ship id use id say obviously a bigger one!!!.

[BarryM]

Such as? Surely a man with your expertise on North Sea operations will be familiar with the current fleets? I'm sure you can give us a name of something suitable and your reasons/credentials for selecting it?

Barry M

[tonyH]

Could anyone tell me how the joystick works at this level, in that does the joystick send a signal directly to a servo or similar connected to a rudder/throttle unit or whatever or does the signal go through to a computer which, in turn, sends the instruction to the servo?

If the second option, can the computer override or modify the instruction?

Thanks

Tony H

[Daryl]

Another thought has occured, as it was a new vessel, would it have been fitted with any data recorder?

Daryl

[Colin Bishop]

Daryl, almost certainly I would have thought. From the information available it sounds as if the sharp turn carried out by the vessel caused the anchor line to ride up along the hull. There was probably nothing wrong with the ship itself but for some reason there was a manouevering error. As has already been pointed out, Norwegian skippers are among the most professional on the planet - but anyone can make a mistake.

[Daryl]

We might find out tommorrow if they retreved it as the enquiry opens first thing in the morning. they don't hang around in Norway.

Daryl

[martno1fan]

Such as? Surely a man with your expertise on North Sea operations will be familiar with the current fleets? I'm sure you can give us a name of something suitable and your reasons/credentials for selecting it?

Barry M

lol bigger boat end of!!

[Colin Bishop]

Not much of a lol situation in my view - especially for those who were drowned.

[norry]

Why dont you show the respect that these souls deserve and have a period of silence on the subject.
At least until the relevant authorities have sorted things out and the other missing sailors  bodies have been found & returned to their families...

...God Bless Them All.........................Norry...

[martno1fan]

the lol wasnt about the situation ,dont give me all the holyer than though bulcrap either.lets hope the company gets whats coming to them and the families get propper compensation for the loss they suffered,i doubt it but we,ll see.

[Martin (Admin)]

Hi Tony H,
I was fortunate enough to be invited on such a vessel - Guardsman -docked in Gt Yarmouth. The Joystick is just an input device to the engines, thruster and rudders. It's a central input device which you tell the ship where you want go and the "computer" sets the rudders, engines & thruster(s) to manover the ship to your command. I also remember that there was a device that you set for the prevailing current, the ship will then hold the set heading and allow for wind and currents. The guy was explaining it all to me and although the vessel I was on was over 10 years old at a guess, it was frightening how close to another vessel or oil rig the ship could be safely manoeuvred.

I asked about computers and GPS but he said that 'computers can't react to what they can't see!', eg. if a big wave is coming or a vessel is approaching or the ship is towing at an angle, the computer will always do as it's told.... all the way to the bottom! I guess if you think about it, if the computers detect that the ship is suddenly listing hard to port, what should it do? Go to Post? Turn to starboard? Release the tow? Pull harder to starboard? Well I'm not mariner ( shout up all my dedicated band of hecklers >:( ) but depending on the situationany of those answers could be correct, yes?


 

Guardsman


Controlls looking forward


Central consol


The Joystick station looking aft.



As also previously stated, it could be mechanical failure of any kind, control failure, engine failure, rudder failure, load slippage, hawser failure, bitt or bollard failure anything!


Are thoughts are obviously with the families of the missing.

Martin.

[BarryM]

the lol wasnt about the situation ,dont give me all the holyer than though bulcrap either.lets hope the company gets whats coming to them and the families get propper compensation for the loss they suffered,i doubt it but we,ll see.

I think you have just shown us where your knowledge of North Sea ops starts and ends. Time to keep quiet I think.