Topic: HMS Kent WW1 paint scheme (Read 26535 times)

raflaunches · « **on:** April 13, 2013, 08:34:14 pm »

Hi everyone

I thought I knew about the paint scheme that the armoured cruiser HMS Kent carried from when she entered service to when she was scrapped in 1920.
Essentially black, white and buff for 1901-1913ish
Dark admiralty grey 1914-1918
White and buff china station 1918-1920 (dates are approximate!)

I found these pictures on eBay today...

I know it's a painting but is there any evidence for this dazzle scheme? I'm interested because I have a hull of her in progress and I wanted to paint her differently to the usual grey or black because it looks fantastic!

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2013, 08:46:45 pm »

The Victorian colour scheme would have been replaced by grey at the turn of the century soon after she was built. The illustration you have probably applies to the latter part of WW1. It's certainly a nice picture.

Colin

raflaunches · « **Reply #2 on:** April 13, 2013, 08:51:48 pm »

Thanks Colin, its just strange of all the books and pictures I have seen so far I haven't seen an example of her in dazzle paint until now. Would be nice to confirm if she carried this interesting paint scheme.

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #3 on:** April 13, 2013, 09:11:39 pm »

I don't think you would necessarily expect it to be well documented. There was a war on and an obsolescent armoured cruiser colour scheme would not have attracted much attention. The fact that you have an illustration suggests that it was implemented.

It is possible that the Imperial War Museum might be able to confirm it.

In any event I think you can use the information you have to justify painting the model like that, it looks terrific! Presumably the other side would have been the same.

Colin

dreadnought72 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 13, 2013, 11:35:42 pm »

In June 1918 HMS Kent was transferred to English Channel convoy escort duty. In July 1918 she returned to the China Station.

...she may have worn these colours for only a very short spell, then.

Andy

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #5 on:** April 14, 2013, 12:06:14 am »

Quite possible indeed. However the dazzle pattern would make for a really impressive model. On the basis of the pictures I would definitely go for it.

Colin

raflaunches · « **Reply #6 on:** April 14, 2013, 08:17:00 am »

It certainly would look very unique, I always like to make my models a little different to everyone elses and this ticks all the right boxes!
The Kent will be my next project at work (I live on camp) so it'll give me plenty to do in my off time.

Thanks to Colin and Dreadnought72 for the feedback, and if anyone does find any photos of her in dazzle I would be very interested.
Regards

Nick

dreadnought72 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 14, 2013, 12:09:42 pm »

The note on the Ebay site says:

Quote

A watercolour by the artist Eric Erskine Tufnell (1888-1978). The watercolour depicts HMS Kent in WWI dazzle paint. The piece is signed and dated on the bottom right corner.

~ Commander Eric Erskine Campbell Tufnell (1888-1978) ~

In 1904 he went to sea as a midshipman serving on submarines 1909 -1917 and anti-submarine work until 1919.

I can't see the painting's date, but it seems likely that Eric Tufnell witnessed this depiction - presumably during his anti-submarine work and maybe in 1918? The colours certainly ring true for WW1 dazzle.

Whether the port side was painted in the same pattern is a completely different matter.

Whatever, I agree with Nick and Colin - it would be a unique finish for a model, and I'd go for it myself.

Andy

Great wee biog on Tuffnell's life here.

Bob K · « **Reply #8 on:** April 14, 2013, 11:18:50 pm »

This looks a superb colour scheme, and you have documentary evidence to give weight to its authenticity. I say go for it, it will be a real show stopper on the water.
If you finish the other side the same who is to say that is not accurate too, based on the dated picture.

raflaunches · « **Reply #9 on:** April 15, 2013, 10:42:17 pm »

Certainly going to built now in those colours, it will look very different to all the other Kents!
Thanks for all the suggestions, just watch this space for a build. I'm currently finishing my MV Imperial Transport heavy oil tanker at work, so as soon as that is finished the Kent will begin... Again!

grendel · « **Reply #10 on:** April 15, 2013, 11:19:03 pm »

is there any chance of viewing or getting a copy of the ships log for the period in question? surely a repaint would be mentioned.
Grendel

Arrow5 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2013, 07:12:41 am »

It would be a wonderful colour scheme for you model but I can hear it now , " wrong colour of pink". I got that in spite of securing a supply of paint from a Royal Naval Dockyard stores !

raflaunches · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2013, 08:11:34 pm »

I think I can hear it too!

Looks remarkably like 'Mountbatten Pink'! But of course that can't be right! If any one asks I'll show them the painting and watch their mouths drop!

I have found on online version of HMS Kent's log book from beginning 1914 to 1919- taking sometime to read through it, spotted some mentions of paint work in 1917 and 1918 but so far no mention of a complete repaint. I'll keep you up to date.

Sandy · « **Reply #13 on:** April 16, 2013, 09:01:55 pm »

That looks awfully pink to be Mountbatten Pink, but interesting scheme.

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #14 on:** April 16, 2013, 09:53:32 pm »

As has been said before on here, the perceived colour will depend very much on the conditions under which it is viewed so I don't really have much time for 'purists' who quibble with the shade.

Colin

mudway · « **Reply #15 on:** April 17, 2013, 03:46:50 am »

Quote from: raflaunches on April 16, 2013, 08:11:34 pm

I think I can hear it too!

Looks remarkably like 'Mountbatten Pink'! But of course that can't be right! If any one asks I'll show them the painting and watch their mouths drop!

I have found on online version of HMS Kent's log book from beginning 1914 to 1919- taking sometime to read through it, spotted some mentions of paint work in 1917 and 1918 but so far no mention of a complete repaint. I'll keep you up to date.

The only mention of a reapint in the log books seems to be when she was in drydock in Simonstown from 14th June > 15th July 1917 and again a mention of painting ship's sides on 28th July 1917. She seems to have arrived in the UK on 4th June 1918 and departed 14th July. No mention of painting and would the RN have bothered to repaint a ship which was only going to be there for 6 weeks before heading for the China Station?
Three thoughts, is it actually supposed to be HMS Kent, if so how do they know as there is nothing shown on the eBay site to name the ship and was it painted in WW1 or depict a ship in WW1 i.e. painted later from memory? The eBay photo of the watercolour shows only a signature, no date, no title.
One more thought, is there such a thing as a list of all Tufnell's paintings?

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #16 on:** April 17, 2013, 09:36:53 am »

Ships were constantly being repainted. There is a report that during the Dardanelles campaign, one of the battleships was bombarding shore batteries whilst the Commander was trying unsuccessfully to persuade the crew to paint the hull on the disengaged side!

An interesting article on Tufnell here: http://www.holywellhousepublishing.co.uk/Tufnell.html

More info on his paintings here although the kent mentioned might be the post WW1 cruiser.

http://www.maritimeprints.com/portfolio/?searchPortfolio=Commander Eric Tufnell RN (1888-1979)

Colin

tigertiger · « **Reply #17 on:** April 17, 2013, 10:08:47 am »

Thoughts regarding colors.

This is a watercolor painting. I would not expect the colors to be a strong as the real subject's colors.
The picture may have faded and been bleached by light, since it was originally painted almost 100 years ago.

mudway · « **Reply #18 on:** April 17, 2013, 11:00:27 am »

Kent’s log for the whole time she was in the UK in 1918 has her every day at Devonport from 4^th June 1918. The log says she went into dry dock on 12^th June and was undocked on 28^th June. Tufnell was at Portland attached to which was serving as a depot ship for mine laying trawlers until 26^th June, when he transferred to the shore base at Grimsby. That only leaves a short window of time for him to have seen Kent.
The ship’s log is quite detailed and even shows such mundane activities as “Hands employed painting mess deck” one day in 1919.

Having had a look at various books and website photos of WW1 cameo, it seems to have used a much more complicated pattern than the Kent painting. The dazzle painting scheme came in during 1917 and the photos around that I can see seem to be more modern warships than Kent. By that date, she was rather obsolete.

I must admit I’m a bit cynical about an apparently undated and unnamed painting and its accuracy. I’ve looked at some of his other paintings of post war vessels and some are the wrong hull and deck colour.
BTW, it does make a nice model in 1/72.

I tried to attach a photo of the model but all I got was the message below.
Internal Server ErrorThe server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #19 on:** April 17, 2013, 11:08:56 am »

Quote

This is a watercolor painting. I would not expect the colors to be a strong as the real subject's colors.
The picture may have faded and been bleached by light, since it was originally painted almost 100 years ago.

The pigments in the painting could also have faded at different rates too.

Plus the photo has been taken on a digital camera with particular settings and reproduced on your computer screen, again with particular settings, both of which which will certainly affect the colour rendering, not to mention the angle at which you are viewing your screen!

The original painting is an artist's impression which would have been done using notes and sketches and maybe B&W photos which would not have accurately reproduced colour tones in those days.

So, all in all, you really can't read too much into the colour hues except in general terms.

Colin

mudway · « **Reply #20 on:** April 17, 2013, 11:23:23 am »

Quote from: Tug---Kenny on April 17, 2013, 11:05:11 am

Would you like the miscellaneous font instructions removed ?

Ken

yes please.

why does it do that?

Some sort of computer glitch. Cannot say, but we are here to help.

Ken

vnkiwi · « **Reply #21 on:** April 17, 2013, 12:06:02 pm »

Hi Nick,
Re your watercolour and your HMS Kent.
If it was my model, I'd go for it, and use the watercolour as a basis. The artist was there, at the time, and even if he did paint it later, from notes etc., his memory for colour would be as close as damn it.
I am building a couple of NZ river steamers from 1864, and have watercolours painted by artists who traveled on the boats, and painted the scenes while on the river, at the time.
Details, and colours depicted, are better than the only existing descriptions from the time, as text is open to interpretation. I have one photo from the same time period, and matches the watercolour but in black and white. Historic artists where the cameras of the day, and even if they simplified, or left detail out, what they did draw, would have been what they saw.
Go for it and enjoy the build
cheers
vnkiwi

ps even writers and researchers get things wrong, or miss things, and even the press at the time often get it wrong, getting graphic illustrators in a different country (in my case) to do an illustration from a written description sent by mail. You'd be amazed at the various different pictures possible and they all wrong, but accepted by historians as accurate.

grendel · « **Reply #22 on:** April 17, 2013, 01:36:20 pm »

my dad came up with an interesting similar example the other day from when he was in the navy, the log book for the ship he was on had two blank days, when apparently nothing happened. my dad from his letters to my mum (since transcribed) filled in the details that during those two days the ship was at anchor on the firing range ranging in and test firing some new armament on the ship, maybe whoever was responsible for the log was busy, or just thought it wasnt worth filling in as they were just at anchor. who knows it was worth a punt at least.
Grendel

Netleyned · « **Reply #23 on:** April 17, 2013, 03:35:49 pm »

Is there a website pertaining to old log books?
I would like to read what the driver wrote about
some of my hairiest moments from years
ago.

Ned

grendel · « **Reply #24 on:** April 17, 2013, 07:32:02 pm »

my dad got his records from the association for the ship where all of those who had served on her could reminisce and have re-unions. they have access to about 50% of the logbooks for the ship. I would think the navy must have an archive somewhere.

Grendel

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Author Topic: HMS Kent WW1 paint scheme (Read 26535 times)