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[Tug Fanatic]

I have recently acquired a VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat Golf/Passat/etc etc heater motor. The case is clearly labelled as Valeo although when you break into it there is a Siemens motor hidden inside which looks unbelievably similar to that used in a lot of Fiestas etc.
My question is what is the function of the 2 copper coils that are found on the front of the motor connected in series with the brushes . The motor seems to run exactly the same whichever side of them I connect the 12v.
 
 
 
 

[GAZOU]

 
the two coils are used to eliminate spurious

[essex2visuvesi]

its a type of supression, similar to the 3 capacitor type things normally found on model motors.  Quite often found on model railway models made in germany for example Fleischmann


See here:-
This is an N gauge Fleischmann railbus I dismantled to fit a DCC decoder a few years back

Sorry for the blurry pic but you can see the 2 coils on the left side

[Tug Fanatic]

Thank you - I had wondered.
 
PS My motors bigger than yours.   

[Netleyned]

Thank you - I had wondered.
 
PS My motors bigger than yours.   

OOH  Matron

Ned

[malcolmfrary]

Capacitors give the interfering signal a short easy path to follow which stops them going anywhere.  The coils act as a block, which also stops the interference going anywhere harmful.  If using it in a boat, I would add capacitors anyway (or one, at least)

[raflaunches]

Have used these type of motors for years and they will work in both directions on any voltage put through them. I have tried everything from 3v to 36v.
The coils are a block as mentioned by malcomfrary used to stop interference on the car's radio, I remember reading about this when I was doing my b tech on this particular subject. By law they have to be suppressed to prevent interference with any radio receiving device, to this effect I have not ever fitted capacitors to any car heater motor put in our model boats and to date never had any interference with the rx or running of the model.

[Tug Fanatic]

Do yours pull 2amp at 12v no load?

[raflaunches]

Do yours pull 2amp at 12v no load?

Yes, they are fantastic motors which are very torquey compared to traditional modelling motors, they have 12 poles and can spin very easily. All the motors we have are at least 10 years old and the comms are hardly worn, the benefit of being built to be run for hours upon end in a car.

[Tug Fanatic]

Great to have someone who knows the motor. What do you reckon is the prop that they work best with at 12v in a tug & how many amps?

[raflaunches]

Well it depends on the size of the tug you want to build but my good friend Paul Millers aka Chuffy has a large Mobile Marine Models tug about 4ft long with one car heater motor turning a 4inch diameter four bladed prop shop propellor. It goes like stink!
Personally I use a Electronize FR30X or FR15X speed controller depending on how much voltage you want to put through the motor. For vessels powered by a 6v SLA we use the 15amp ESC and for 12v SLA powered models we use the 30amp version. Chuffy has experimented with different speed controllers such as Action and Mtroniks which are cheaper than the standard Electronize ESC. Once he had sorted out the tug at the Mayhem weekend it worked extremely well, he just needs to finish the model! 

[Stavros]

MMMMM now beware the tug Raflaunches is reffering to was BLOWING fuses like crazy it ended up with a 25amp fuse in the end to cure it so anyone claims 2 amp current draw might be right out of water but NOT in water IMHO
 
Dave

[raflaunches]

MMMMM now beware the tug Raflaunches is reffering to was BLOWING fuses like crazy it ended up with a 25amp fuse in the end to cure it so anyone claims 2 amp current draw might be right out of water but NOT in water IMHO
 
Dave

That's why I use a 30amp fuse and the Electronize FR30X ESC's on most of the models when we use 12v SLA, I know that you and Chuffy spent a good amount of time sorting it out and now it works thanks to you both. From what I remember when we first used the motors that you shouldn't slam the throttles wide open when use anything smaller than a 20amp fuse, the initial surge will blow the fuse repeatedly. We found out that the hard way with our 1/12th scale ASRL! Mind you, your Happy Hunter tug can outrace most models-very impressive especially when I saw your battery!

[malcolmfrary]

What size fuse feeds it in its natural habitat, the car?  My guess would be about 10A, but the big difference is probably the loading - a big prop in water probably offers a lot more load, and thus demands more current, than a fan in air.  The 2A unloaded is an indication of what is being wasted - thats what it takes to spin itself without doing any outside work.

[Tug Fanatic]

I have used heater motors for many years but I got a supply of the the black fully enclosed Smiths motors, similar to those that used to be supplied by MMM, and some Cortina heater motors, which have now run out.

I wanted to get a motor that I would easily get more of at a later date and given the very wide range of vehicles that this is fitted to this seems to fit the bill. The new learning bit is that it is rather more powerful than I am used to. When I first hooked it up I thought that it might be faulty as 2amps no load seemed very high but Raflaunches (above) thinks it normal.

The question about props is specifically about this motor and what works well with it. I have connected many props from 45mm to 100mm to the old Smiths motors and they never used more than about 5 amps. For several year I used them with a 5amp home made controller with no problem.  The new motors obviously will use more but 30amp controllers are a new world  . I was wondering where is a good place to start with propellers for this specific motor. As it is so common I was hoping that someone with experience might have some answers.

Is this the motor in the tug that Raflaunches refers to?
 
 
 
 
 

[raflaunches]

Hi Tug Fanatic


I've been talking to my Dad, who fits the motors into our models, about propellers for theses type of motors.
I thought I would mention the details of some of our models that have car heater motors:


1/12 Air Sea Rescue Launch 65inches long 14inches beam, weighs 28lbs- Two Bosch car heater motors each directly driving a 55mm 4 blade cast bronze propeller using a Electronize FR30X ESC per motor. Two 6v 10amp/hr Sealed Lead Acid batteries are connected together to create 12v, a 30amp fuse is put into the power line from the batteries to the ESCs. Model will achieve approx 12mph and will last about 1hour with 6-7 high speed runs.


1/12 Pinnace 60inches long 15inches beam- Two Siemens car heater motors, one driving directly and one driving two (via a belt drive) 50mm three blade cast bronze propellers. Each motor controlled by an Electronize FR15X ESC powered by a12v 7amp/hr SLA battery. A 15amp fuse is fitted in each power line from the battery. Model will achieve 10mph and will last approx 2hours on one set of  batteries.


1/24 Trawler 59inches long 12inches beam, weighs 56lbs- one large Bosch car heater motor directly driving a 102mm four blade cast bronze propeller. An Electronize FR30X ESC powered by a single 12v 10amp/hr SLA battery, a 30amp fuse is fitted in the power line. Model is very over powered but after adjusting the speed controller to its minimum setting it can now achieve 7mph and last for 1.30hrs but have to be aware of the weight and the power when reversing, when the battery power drops off attempting to stop the model becomes a challenge!


With the trawler we have to remember not to slam the throttles open, initially we used a 15amp fuse but like Chuffy's tug the fuses kept blowing. We switched to 30amp fuses and never had a problem since.
All our props are from Prop Shop who use the lost wax method to cast their propellers.


Hope this helps, if you look on my build thread of HMS Gnat Insect class gunboat you can see the car heater motors and speed controllers we use.

[Tug Fanatic]

Thank you raflaunches. Its sounds like you have some seriously impressively large models there!
The examples that you give suggest that I am going to need more battery capacity than I have previously used.