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[Captain Povey]

Hi All, I received a phone call from a recently bereaved lady who was looking for home for a model boat her late husband had started. When I went to collect it I found it was the nearly completed hull of the model 4 masted Barque 'Parma'. The drawings by Harold A Underhill of Glasgow were with it and are very detailed. I have since found out that she was built by A Rodger & Co, Glasgow in 1902 and she sailed to all parts of the world. My wife was with me when I collected it and liked the look of it so much she said it had better be my next project. So having now completed the Flower Class Corvette, Azalea I had better make a start. Has any Mayhemer any experience of building this type of sailing ship? I think it is going to be quite a challenge. Graham

[JerryTodd]

Are you going to sail that or finish it static?

-= sail it =-
-= sail it =-
-= sail it =-

[Captain Povey]

  Ah yes l I was planning to make it sailable. It should look stunning and be could be very exciting. My initial thoughts are: Do I need to add a big keel like I have on the Thames Barge or would a lead bottom be enough? Should I reduce the mast height to make it more stable? Any advice gratefully accepted. Cheers. Graham. 

[Neil]

I think you would need a deep, but not necessarily weighty keel for it externally to counterbalance the four fully rigged masts.
neil.

[JerryTodd]

It's going to take some ballast to get that down to it's waterline - where do you want most of it to be - in the hull where you have to reach through all that rigging to deal with it, or slung underneath where you can detach it and handle a model that maybe 40 pounds lighter?

True, a deep fin requires less weight to get the same righting moment as maybe three times more ballast, but it limits where you can sail because of it's depth, and forces you to add more internal ballast to get the model on it's water line.

My Constellation (pic below) carries a PVC pipe containing 42 pounds of lead bird shot.  It's attached by two rods that go through tubes through the hull.  The model, gear, battery, and some 12 pounds of lead still leaves her almost 2" high in the water.  I plan to retrofit her so the ballast is bolted on from below, then I can deal with it on the transport cart and not have to reach in through the rigging to tighten keel bolts.

click for a bigger pic

She is:
Length over the rig: 96" (243.84 cm)
Length on deck: 61" (154.94 cm)
Draft, without ballast keel: 7" (17.78 cm) With 3-1/2" ballast keel: 10-1/2" (27.94 cm)
Height bottom of keel to main truck, without ballast keel: 65" (165.1 cm) With ballast keel: 69" (175.26 cm)
Sail Area: 2,807.01 square inches in 17 sails (19.5 sf, 18,109.7 scm, 1.8 sqm)
As she's not finished, I don't have an accurate weight for her yet.

You'll also need to be able to reduce sail.  We tend to sail in winds that are, at scale, small gales, or worst.  You should be able to remove/reduce any sails above the tops'ls at lakeside without a lot of undo trouble, and sail her wearing what's suitable to the wind conditions.  Maybe you can have them brail up, manually or remotely, or just remove them completely.

The trick to these big sailors is ease of operation.  The easier it is to move her, maintain her, get her in and out of the water, etc, the more often you'll sail her.  If it's a PITA - you'll dread dealing with her and she may as well be a static model with a crew of dust bunnies.

[Captain Povey]

Hi Neil and Jerry, Thanks for your replies, comments and advice. From what you say I think I will need to put as much lead in the hull as I can manage to lift for transport. I will decide how much that is by weighing my battleship, as that is just about the maximum I can manage to lift at the moment, and then take a few pounds off for decreasing ability with increasing age . I think a weighted keel of about 10" depth will be ok for where I sail and will be attached from the outside. Like on the Thames sailing barge it should also help handling, reduce side slip. At the moment in our temporary heat wave water is evaporating fast from our pools so that might be variable too. If any extra weight is still needed it will also be added under the hull from the outside too. Fortunately I have just had some flashing replaced around two chimneys and I persuaded the roofer to leave me the old lead. It sounds as if I am going to need it by what Jerry says (42lb!). Jerry your Constellation looks fantastic. I hope I can achieve something as good looking as that. I take your point about making the sail area easily varied as it is often 'breezy' where I sail. I will probably make them manually braillable although I like the idea of remotely adjusting them. I see you are sailing with the topsails only. Any particular reason as I thought they would be the first to come off in a breeze leaving only the mainsails. ok so the first job is get the hull finished, waterproofed etc and get her in the test tank, pile on the ballast and get an idea of how much more lead I have to strip from the roof  . Cheers Graham.

[JerryTodd]

Constellation isn't finished, she was jury rigged for a couple of sails.  She's carrying "battle sails" basically, such as she's wearing in the portrait done in 1862 (below).   The tops'l tend to be above the waves in a heavy sea and because a strong steady wind is safer than a strong on and off wind it's a trade off between increased top-hamper and beating the rig to death.   A square rigger reduces sail outside in, top down, and bottom up - that is; stuns'l and such come in; then the high up sails to the t'gallants, the courses, and then the top'sl begin getting reefed.  Like all things, this isn't hard and fast, there are always exceptions often to accommodate balance and other conditions.

For us, with models, the wave thing could come into play.  I'll be most often sailing in the open waters of the Chesapeake Bay and some of it's creeks, where it can get a bit choppy.  That's why I wanted a large model, that could deal with such conditions.  In my case that sail area measurements a little high, there are two fore-n-aft trys'ls (#4 & #9) that probably won't be set unless I can come up with a way to handle their sheets.  I intend to have manual brailing for t'gallants and courses, that is buntlines, clewlines, and sheets, will all go to a pair of small hooks where I can pull a line brailing up the sail, and hook it in place, or let it off to set the sail and hook it there.  The royals will be removable.  Your issues will be that your ship carried double t'gallants as well as double tops'ls, which will make it all a bit tedious.

Remember though, tedious is not impossible and it's dealt with patience.  The last two images attached are of Sindra built by a fella down under who is obviously not young in years or a Mr Universe competitor.  She carries the same rig as Parma though it's a larger model, maybe twice as large?  It can be done and your only regret will be in not trying.

[Captain Povey]

Hi Jerry, Thanks for the explanations and giving me more things to remember when she gets near the water. Thanks for the pictures and illustration too. I will have to do some serious homework on period sailing ships and their rigging before I go much further. The guy down under has certainly gone to town on that model. He is either a midget or it is massive. I would like to see the process of launching and what sort of equipment or team he uses. Personally comparing his physique with mine I would say he is a more likely contender for the Mr Universe title than me.