Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length.

[grendel]

A friend of mine has posted this (reproduced with his permission):-

I'm slowly being suffocated by red tape and paper as I try to equip Dads new apartment with the things he needs to make things easier for both him, me and his carer as well as keeping the old boy amused.

The latest batch of forms concern fitting a washer/dryer and a TV satellite dish into his apartment. The forms ask not just 'why' I want to install said items but give me an instruction to 'give my reasons for installation in no fewer than one hundred words'. Why the word count I'm wondering? So I thought I would share the reasons I have given...shamelessly borrowing some material.

TV & Satellite Dish
"Our attempts to entertain my father using shadow puppetry are time consuming.We are running out of possible scenarios utilizing my lack of skill in the area of characters. There are only so many scripts that include provision for 'deformed rabbit' and a 'caterpillar'. In order to facilitate my father's interest in the Jeremy Kyle Show I have been leaving him in his wheelchair in the town center to people watch.However now that winter is almost upon us, his social worker says we are no longer allowed to do this...even if we provide him with a hot water bottle and a blanket. It was suggested that we buy him a TV.This we did and Dad now sits happily in front of the set shouting 'Do Deformed Rabbit', however after reading the instructions we discovered that if we attach the TV set to a satellite dish we will achieve better results."

Washer/Dryer
"Although I provided my father's carer with washing facilities she tells me that the rock is extremely heavy and the distance from my father's flat to the river is too far to cover within the allotted two hours per day she is paid for. In addition to this the flood defences on the Town side of the river make it difficult for her to get to the water's edge and contravene both Health and Safety legislation as well as the 1870 Town Ordinances concerning bathing and washing in the river to reduce cholera outbreaks. On warm days she can dry the washing a little on her way back from the river but due to the constraints of carrying the rock she cannot get enough speed up the hill to dry the washing thoroughly. I have instructed the carer to direct the hot air she exhales whilst panting with exhaustion at the washing but this is still not efficient.. I asked the Carer if she was 'A' or 'B' rated but she tells me she's a '38 DD' and although she's 'never had any complaints' I don't think she complies with EU regulations. I believe a simple solution to the problem would be to install a washer dryer."

Grendel

[Fastfaz]

   I absolutely love this post!
      It takes me back to 2006 (actual experience) when my lovely mum in law 83 years of age could no longer get into her bath to bathe. When my wife and I found out that she was actually getting washed in the kitchen sink, I was to be polite, furious that at her age after working all her life up to 67 years she had no help.
     Faz time! I contacted all the relevant people i.e. Social services etc and a visit was arranged. My wife and I were present at the visit and the young man was very nicely mannered and, quite rightly I would say, mum was entitled to lots of help after working all her life.
     Now we get to reality. The nice young man arranged what they call an "assessment visit" to which my wife and I thankfully were present, the "Assessor" was a woman approx. 40 years of age and I have to say I have never met another person male or female who was as obnoxious in my life. For approx. 5 minutes she listened to the problems mum had then insisted that she needed to see mum attempt to get into the bath (i.e. lifting one leg over the bath rim) this person was adamant in doing this and mum got very upset at this time, I tried to reason with this woman as in using common sense sadly to no avail.
     After approx. 10 minutes in the bathroom and mum becoming very agitated and upset I asked this horrible (politically correct!) person to leave mums house thinking what an absolute waste of time the whole thing had been. When I escorted this awful woman downstairs to the front door to say she was nasty does not even go near her attitude, I said to her this has been a complete waste of time! her response was nothing said just smug smile. I then (feel free to delete these words if they offend) said if my mum had been coloured or an immigrant would this have happened? She then smiled almost laughing at me.
     To this day I do not know how I kept self control and had she have been a man I would have been arrested for assault. The sheer arrogance was unbelievable.
     However there is a happy ending to the tale, we as a family got together to fund the conversion to a walk in shower. Very expensive I did the work and the cost was just under £900.00.
     The Government grant for such work by the way is around £1500/1800.00
               Can somebody tell me why people who enter our country without making any contribution to the country can take priority over those who have? Answer please "Gideon".
           Sorry to be bore,
                Faz.

[essex2visuvesi]

We had the same thing with my Great Grandmother.
The woman was very similar in attitude to the one you had. She seemed to take great delight in in seeing my great grandmothers discomfort, saying frequently "I think with a little more effort you could...."
However the last laugh was on her. The look on her face was priceless when my father lied to her and said "You see that old camera  on the mantle piece?... its actually a security camera and has been recording the last hour and a half.  Would you like a copy sent to your office and perhaps another to the local paper?.  Oh and I'm sure my son could post a copy on the internet"
The lady (I use the term loosely) quickly left.
Unsurprisingly the request for a stairlift was approved and the work was completed within a month :)

[Crossie]

 Unfortunately Faz to answer your question posed in the last line of your post honestly and objectively would probably breach the Forum rules concerning political remarks and I certainly don't want to do that, but your tale and the cause for the  preceding post are heard ever more frequently these days, maybe because the demand is forever increasing. However considering the thread title, I think that many other official form filling exercises have become much simpler and faster, e.g. vehicle tax , passport renewal, income tax return and the websites of all these government agencies are very easy to navigate even for this septuagenarian.

        Trevor

[tigertiger]

Hi Grendel,


Great answers, and may make you feel better. However, the paper shufflers have hundreds of forms to deal with every day. If you make it easy for them, then they will be more likely to make it easy for you. The paper shufflers probably also hate the extra work.


100 words limit.
There will be a box on a computer they may have to put it in. Also some people write thousands of words, that take a long time to read. They may then have to input some or all of it into a computer (re-type if hand written)


Reason for asking why you need the stuff?
Probably the form is standard for asking for 'basic domestic appliances needed in daily life' (perhaps your answer for both, short and sweet), and for expensive specialist equipment. My dad was given a motability scooter thing. It needed a hut built and charging station installation.


The only thing they might question is the satellite TV, as there is terrestrial and set top boxes. Things with a one of (capital cost) are easy to get. Things with an ongoing contract (revenue cost) are harder to get approved, as they are harder to budget for year on year.

[inertia]

There is no mileage in taking the proverbial out of bureaucracy, especially if you're asking for something. It might make you feel better but the poor soul at the other end has a (usually badly-paid) job to do and is only human.

Turn the mirror and ask yourself what you would do with a smart-alec letter like that from a self-styled comedian.

Yep - back to the bottom of the In Tray or into the floor-mounted, open-topped cylindrical filing cabinet.

DM

[Colin Bishop]

Dave is quite right, too many people prefer to indulge themselves in having a rant and take their eye off the ball which is to actually get the result that they want. You can get jobsworths in any walk of life but most people just want to avoid aggro. If you have a genuine complaint then record the details and take it up officially later, you will rarely get any satisfaction on the spot from those 'in authority' as they hold the whip hand at that moment in time. As they say, revenge is a dish best served cold!

A close relative didn't get very far with trying to sort out a problem with BT which was partly of her making because every time she made contact she blew her top with them. I persuaded her to let me sort it out, got it escalated and fixed on the basis that 'we have this problem with my relative's broadband, how can we resolve it?'. I even got an offer of compensation which I persuaded them to increase. As Dave says, you need to treat the person at the other end as a human in the absence of any indication to the contrary. If they insist on being genuinely difficult despite your reasonableness, don't lose your cool, just insist on dealing with their manager instead.

A friend of a friend got annoyed at airport security procedures and took it out on the staff on duty. He received special treatment! Sometimes you have to grit your teeth to get what you want. If that means stripping half naked in order to get on the plane than you have to literally grin and bare it!

Colin

[canabus]

I like to see these government person's working it the private sector, they would be sacked the first day!!!

[grendel]

Hi Grendel,


Great answers, and may make you feel better. However, the paper shufflers have hundreds of forms to deal with every day. If you make it easy for them, then they will be more likely to make it easy for you. The paper shufflers probably also hate the extra work.


100 words limit.
There will be a box on a computer they may have to put it in. Also some people write thousands of words, that take a long time to read. They may then have to input some or all of it into a computer (re-type if hand written)


Reason for asking why you need the stuff?
Probably the form is standard for asking for 'basic domestic appliances needed in daily life' (perhaps your answer for both, short and sweet), and for expensive specialist equipment. My dad was given a motability scooter thing. It needed a hut built and charging station installation.


The only thing they might question is the satellite TV, as there is terrestrial and set top boxes. Things with a one of (capital cost) are easy to get. Things with an ongoing contract (revenue cost) are harder to get approved, as they are harder to budget for year on year.

I think the point was a minimum word count of 100 words, it says no fewer than 100 words.

[grendel]

my friend is / was an archaologist, he once found a bone in a field, so phoned in to report it, when the official got there he was unable to confirm if the bone was human, but brightened up and said, I know- there is a local expert, and proceeded to give him a call, when my friends phone rang, and he answered it, the official went quiet as he realised. for some reason these sort of things frequently seem to occur to my friend, it must just be a knack he has. (though he is very good at telling the tales afterward too).
as a sometimes paper shuffler myself, I find it makes my day when you come across the odd gem of sarcasm or wit, it may not help with getting the result you want, but it brightens the day, and I find that people with a smile on their face do better work - I  would much rather work in a happy office than earn a fortune - I am fortunate that I do. (work in a happy office that is - I dont earn a fortune)
Grendel

[Colin Bishop]

I like to see these government person's working it the private sector, they would be sacked the first day!!

You've got to be joking! There are just as many idiots in the private sector as there are in the public! (some even run banks)

Colin

[grendel]

theres an update - I told you my friends life  is full of these sorts of coincides:-

I think both have a point here and as I type I've just realised a similarity to the good 'ole Broads Authority. The people doing the day to day task of caring for the individual deserve some high praise. It's once you get to the officer or social worker level that things tend to break down.

I often wish that I knew someone who was a highly qualified Social Worker that knew all of the pit falls, tricks and traps of negotiating the system. Now here's the 'Doh' moment...Dad is CSS CQSW in other words a fully qualified Social Worker and former deputy head of the same Social Services Department that's supposed to be caring for him!

Just to add a little further insult to injury the new counties Social Services suggested I get in touch with the British Legion as Dad is ex Royal Navy they would have a welfare officer who could offer support etc.
"I don't think that will do any good..." I started to explain.
"No, the bloke is fantastic, really helps, knows his stuff! Worked with him before!"
They then passed me the telephone number and contact details for Dad who was the British Legion's welfare officer for the area.
"Oh that's a shame!" was all the Social Worker could say when she realised the bloke that was going to help was in fact the bloke that needed help.

Grendel

[joppyuk1]

Quite a few years ago Patrick Moore wrote (under a pseudonym) a little book entitled 'How to Annoy a Beurocrat', which was full of little tricks to subvert the mechanism of beurocracy. One I always remember is, to rub a candle stub along any bit of the form that may require the eventual recipient to write on it. Evidently, in the days of fountain pens it made life terribly difficult for them!

[inertia]

Quite a few years ago Patrick Moore wrote (under a pseudonym) a little book entitled 'How to Annoy a Beurocrat', which was full of little tricks to subvert the mechanism of beurocracy. One I always remember is, to rub a candle stub along any bit of the form that may require the eventual recipient to write on it. Evidently, in the days of fountain pens it made life terribly difficult for them!

That book (by 'R T Fishall') was passed around our office like a filthy magazine. Laugh? I almost did... I found it amusing to think that it was the same "beaurocracy" which approved and arranged for his Knighthood. I don't suppose he ever saw anything ironic in that.
DM

[Mad Scientist]

No matter how crazy the rules seem to be, there is usually some sort of logic to them.
In Canada, people claiming disability benefits are occasionally required to submit forms (signed by a doctor) confirming that they are still disabled. This includes people suffering from permanent disabilities. This seems completely insane, but there's a reason: before this policy was implemented, people receiving benefits for short-term disabilities would "forget" to tell the Gov't that they were recovered and back to work.
So, the current policy prevents fraud, even if it does seem crazy.
Tom

[derekwarner]

Filling in verbal forms  ...yes there is such a thing

I telephoned our Local Wollongong City Council - sub Department of Health .....to report that my GREEN waste recycling bin plastic lid had been damaged and was only secured by one hinge, not the two as originally installed

The young lady [assumption yes I know] then commenced to ask a series of questions that [yes assumed] would be straight forward

1. did I, or my family or an acquaintance knowingly and deliberately damage the bin?
2. when was the last time I saw the bin without it's lid hinge broken?
3. what was the time and date of such sighting?
4. was this the normal day for the recycling bin to be collected?
5. could I please confirm the local weather conditions on both the night preceding and on the day of collection?
6. did I think that any passing school children could have wilfully and maliciously damaged the bin lid on their way to school?
7. do I or any of my direct relatives have any direct or indirect financial interest  with the Councils subcontract waste removal service?
8. do I or any of my family know or have a personal relationship with an employee of the Councils subcontract waste removal service?
9. do I support GREEN waste being used or treated as a renewable energy source, or do I favour open ground fill?
10. have there been similar cases of such wilful damage in your neighbourhood? 

At this point I suggested to miss smarty britches, that I could hear her typing my responses to her questions ....[yes, into an assumed computer database] and asked if her computer could confirm the response detail to question 10.

The response to this was that she [the young lady] could not comment on such Council matters as they may relate to other matters pending  investigation or matters currently before  Law Courts

I took approximately 3 working weeks to have a new plastic hinge pin installed in my recycling bin...........

BTW, the image below is of the near brand spanking new GREEN waste recycling bin hinge pin.......Derek 

[BrianB6]

You should have just replaced the broken as I did (Roofing screw and plastic washer)
Alternativly reported the bin had been stolen in the night (as another of ours was) and asked for a new one.   Our Council were very co-operative and it came in 3 days

[derekwarner]

You could just imagine it.......in the Law Courts of OZ

1. you [Brian & Derek] have both  been found guilty of wilful and malicious damage to a plastic garbage [recycling GREEN] bin lid hinge pin
2. for this heinous crime, you will both be deported to the home of your [assumed] ancestors
3. this being the Thames River [in far off England] then to rot ...until the term of your natural life 

Derek

[warspite]

we had a black general waste bin taken shortly after it had been emptied, we had to pay £31.00 to get a replacement, I then decided to check the area and found it on the next row of terrace houses, it was apparently taken by an alcholic woman who couldnt be bothered emptying hers enough so that the council would empty it (if the lids not closed they wont empty it  stupid rule i know), so she stole ours, we now have two black bins, i paid for it i'm gonna keep it. Oh, i emptied our bin for her, right outside her back gate 

[Bob K]

Sorry, misread the title.  I thought it was about model boat techniques instruction . . .
Foam Filling and Buoyancy - a lesson

[TailUK]

Governmentium

The most ponderous chemical element yet known to science. Governmentium (Gv) has 1 neutron, 12 assistant neutrons, 75 deputy neutrons, and 224 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312.

These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons. Since Governmentium has no electrons, it is inert. However, it can be detected as it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. A minute amount of Governmentium causes one reaction to take over four days to complete when it would normally take less than a second. Governmentium has a normal half-life of three years; it does not decay, but instead undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places.

In fact, Governmentium mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganization will cause some morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes.

When catalyzed with money, Governmentium becomes Administratium--an element which radiates just as much energy as Governmentium since it has half as many peons but twice as many morons.

[Crossie]

 TailUK----- Brilliant!

[TailUK]

Governmentium

The most ponderous chemical element yet known to science. Governmentium (Gv) has 1 neutron, 12 assistant neutrons, 75 deputy neutrons, and 224 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312.

These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons. Since Governmentium has no electrons, it is inert. However, it can be detected as it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. A minute amount of Governmentium causes one reaction to take over four days to complete when it would normally take less than a second. Governmentium has a normal half-life of three years; it does not decay, but instead undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places.

In fact, Governmentium mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganization will cause some morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes.

When catalyzed with money, Governmentium becomes Administratium--an element which radiates just as much energy as Governmentium since it has half as many peons but twice as many morons.

In additional research on Governmentium (Gv) it has been discovered that the lepton like particles, scientists are now calling "pillocks" actually fall into 8 categories;
 Up, Down, Left, Right. Lazy, Crooked. Dozy and Shifty. Classification of the Pillock particle is arbitrary as they seem indistinguishable from each other and despite their existence appear completely unable to effect any change on Governmentium (Gv) itself.

This characteristic of moron promotion leads some scientists to believe that Governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a critical concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as a critical morass. It has been discovered that Administratium (symbol=Ad),radiates just as much energy as Governmentium, since it has half as many pillocks but twice as many morons.