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Author Topic: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????  (Read 10381 times)

DaveMarles

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A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« on: September 27, 2007, 12:28:27 pm »

    Now that Gary Pope has wrapped up the D class in OMRA using the Sigma OMRA version I hear that once again certain OMRA members are trying to ban it and in fact disqualify him from the races that he has competed in.
    How can OMRA members allow this kind of thing to go on? I have raced in many different National and International competitions in boatracing and never experienced this kind of interference. Maybe I'm wrong but if its true then it doesn't make OMRA look good in my opinion.
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OneBladeMissing

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2007, 04:56:05 pm »

Maybe they've been studying how the FIA in Paris operates!
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2772e

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2007, 05:45:39 pm »

Dave,

I had also heard this and there was a big bust up over it on Sunday.

I happened to be speaking to a certain shop owner on Tuesday who sells lots of boat hulls to OMRA members and he was personally going to raise an objection?

I questioned this as the Sigma clearly has the 2 inches of freeboard and has been running all year legally without any complaints?

His explanation was that the two inches was not freeboard, it was the distance between the boats water line and the deck line, not the chine line to the deck line?

Do the rules define the difference?

Its not just the boat that wins the championship, Gary's driving and reliability has been excellent this year.

I think the complaints are more about sponsored boats and they are using the Sigma as an excuse.

Simon
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2007, 06:00:38 pm »


This may get a little heated but I'm sure we can keep it civil gentelmen.....  O0
Martin
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kurt cave sikk 27

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2007, 06:22:53 pm »

i agree with you dave,i am not happy about hearing this myself,and find it hard to beleave that some people out there are small minded and dont like abit of competition,the boat is legal,and has been passed to race,i am beginning to think that this could be purely for financial reasons and nothing else.gary deserves all the credit for winning the championship.its not just about the boat,you have to drive it as well,and gary done this to the best of his ability,and we also have to think about the other people that have bought a sigma for omra ,what of there boats????all that money waisted,omra is surposed to be about the development of the boat,and now something abit different and fast has come along some people dont like it.WHY?maybe its becouse there boats are not doing so well????first it was the sponsorship,now its the boat?what next????only time will tell,OMRA has passed the boat a legal,that really should be that, O0
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tmbc

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2007, 06:37:40 pm »

right guys lets look at this without the rose coloured glasses

i came into omra earlier this year with kurt and noticed from the start that theres a good level of competition but one thing that bugs me is this is a hobby and some guys take it to seriously

obviously theres money out there to be made by the guys who own shops etc but at the end of the day why the hell have people got to spit there dummy out and jump up and down

for crying out loud this weekend at windermere  there was arguments over a boat hittin the rescue boat  it started blowing out of proportion like i said to the people involved its a hobby instead of crying and shouting and even grabing people  (this wasnt the driver but his pit man !!) !!! why couldnt they be the better man and come back to the next race and show how good they are ! no harm was done ok people lost a few points ! but what the hell it aint worth it

im sorry people may feel passionate about the racing but it aint formula 1 and you aint gonna wiin millions

my other point is that do people coming into the hobby really want to see this happening ! not a good example !

lastly is tiime changes  and so will the design of boats is it that daves made a boat that  has marked the time of change and other builders arnt ready for it ! and can only try and ban it without trying to get a desing that will beat it
come on guys show it with your boats not the arguments !  

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bigtee

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2007, 08:28:11 pm »

i have to agree with Dave and Kurt on this one , i have raced in both mpba and omra more so in mpba but have enjoyed the true "offshore " racing .At the beginning of the season there was a lot of " pit talk " about Gary and this new sigma and the sponsorship thing . Many people thought Gary could use this sponsorship to an unfair advantage not so you still have to prepare and race the boat . I think there are differant issues that need to be sorted out over and above the sigma having a 2" freeboard , there are a number of boats that race and do not even look like an " offshore " boat .................. only my 10p worth

one last throught if gary is chucked out from this year and the sigma banned where does this leave the other people that have brought a sigma ,i dont think dave will be giving out any refunds ...... and nor should he
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AC RAZOR 45

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2007, 08:35:38 pm »

hi Dave well mate you are right to start this thread, well done for the hull and super well done to Gary for WINNING THE CHAMPION SHIP,from what i can gather being a new member of omra,this subject has already been put before the omra committee and deemed that the hull is quite legal to race in omra, and the only people that are up in arms about its win are other hull makers/outlets that are going to feel it in there pockets,and whilst we are on about omra rules can any one tell me where it states in the rules that if your pitting skills are commented on ,you are within your right to throttle the guy that made the comment, and this is one of the so called people thats supposed to be reading the rule book out regarding hull shape, i think he needs to read it again.........Alan
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martno1fan

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2007, 10:00:21 pm »

All i can say is these people are morons,this is typical of them.They have tried to get Daves boats banned before and been succesfull in the past,they are just scared and jealous of his designs thats how i see it.Theres only one way round these idiots and that is to ignore them and take your money elsewhere,let them race there tubs LIKE THE OLD WOMEN THEY ARE !!let them stay behind the times and you move on and start your own racing body for real racing boats.Its been proved there is no match for the sigma as a design in omra and thats not taking away from Garys abillity either.Also rather than ban a guy whos designed a fantastic boat that runs brilliantly they should ban the idiot who grabbed hold of someone ? ,Maybe you guys should have sent him to swim with the fishes sounds like he needed to cool down some.
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pete_486

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2007, 10:10:19 pm »

well just to put my oar in here i think if they were going to outlaw gary's sigma they should have done it right from the outset on the first scrutineering and NOT made the rules up as they went along, i am a new member of OMRA and these rules are a very grey area as to the freeboard on the boats and i am getting very disallusioned with all the squabbling between the members.
this should be a fun thing for everyone to enjoy and not be as serious as winning the third world war.
i was going up to windermere but the boat was not ready in time, and im glad i didnt because i would have had my wife and daughter with me and i dont want them to see any violence on a so called fun day out.


Pete
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pete_486

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2007, 10:12:58 pm »

sorry Gary i got so carried away i forgot congratulations are in order very well done.


Pete
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martno1fan

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2007, 10:14:52 pm »

Oh and while im on the  soap box i seem to remember last year a few guys who race in omra told me when i mentioned Dave was making an omra version of his sigma that it wouldnt do well as he raced boats on flat ponds while offshore was for real boats.Seems now hes proved them wrong they want to bend the rules they  are so fond of!!,this is just sour grapes if you ask me and they should accept they were wrong and get over themselves.I think its time for change i say out with the old and in with the new  O0.
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martno1fan

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2007, 10:21:13 pm »


i was going up to windermere but the boat was not ready in time, and im glad i didnt because i would have had my wife and daughter with me and i dont want them to see any violence on a so called fun day out.


Pete
Well im just glad i left before i saw any of that AL as i had both my kids with me.I reckon all the omra members should stick by Dave and Gary  on this and those small minded people who are trying to twist the rules to their own ends should be the ones kicked out.Let the ones who are against Gary and Daves Sigma come forward and lets see who they are??.
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OMRA4

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2007, 11:48:14 pm »

Thanks for all the kind comments guy's. I personally do not want to see OMRA get the blame for this, the guys that run it do a good unpaid job and I don't want to see them quitting just because a couple of morons are getting out of hand.
I am really disgusted and take it very seriously that someone has taken it upon themselves to introduce violence into our organisation and hobby and will do my best at the end of the year to get someone thrown out of OMRA for that. He knows who he is and I hope he realises that no matter what the excuse, violence should not and I'm sure will not be tolerated.
We live in a world where violence is now the norm and we should all do our best to keep it out of R/C hobbies.
It's interesting that the very guy who tried to get me thrown out of OMRA last year is the same person that pinned my pitman up against a wall. Nuff said.
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martno1fan

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2007, 11:55:39 pm »

Whats his name Danny? lets have it  ;) name and shame him thats what i say and i say all omra members put it in writing to get him thrown out  ;).
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Colin Bishop

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2007, 12:05:05 am »

Wouldn't this discussion be better resolved within OMRA rather than being aired in public - dirty washing and all that? I'm sure it's very important to those involved but it's boring the pants off the rest of us.
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AC RAZOR 45

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2007, 01:08:47 am »

IF ITS BORING DONT READ IT SIMPLE, AND DANNY MY SELF AND A FEW OTHERS HAVE RANG ALAN AT OMRA AND EMAILED HIM WITH OUR COMPLAINTS AGAINST YOU KNOW WHO AND HAVE ASKED FOR HIM TO BE KICKED OUT AND I THINK YOU SHOULD DO THE SAME THEY HAVE TO HEAR THE MAJORITY PETE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WHEN HE SAID IF I GO TO WORK TOMORROW AND PIN A COLLEGE AGAINST THE WALL I WOULD BE SACK ON THE SPOT, .....ALAN
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pete_486

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2007, 01:09:42 am »

Thanks for all the kind comments guy's. I personally do not want to see OMRA get the blame for this, the guys that run it do a good unpaid job and I don't want to see them quitting just because a couple of morons are getting out of hand.
I am really disgusted and take it very seriously that someone has taken it upon themselves to introduce violence into our organisation and hobby and will do my best at the end of the year to get someone thrown out of OMRA for that. He knows who he is and I hope he realises that no matter what the excuse, violence should not and I'm sure will not be tolerated.
We live in a world where violence is now the norm and we should all do our best to keep it out of R/C hobbies.
It's interesting that the very guy who tried to get me thrown out of OMRA last year is the same person that pinned my pitman up against a wall. Nuff said.

well said Danny and im not naming and shaming mart, the guy knows who he is and its disgusting, this is a friendly sport and to have the media (who should be neutral at all times ) assaulted? where does this leave us, a bunch of thugs?, i dont think so.
there is some appolagising to do and make that known to the media.
the other point here is gary's sigma, and like i said before, if they outlawed it, it should have been done on the outset not when he's won.
in my eyes what ever happens gary won the chamionship FAIR and SQUARE.



Pete
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chingdevil

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2007, 07:54:47 am »

MODERATED

Can we take this discussion off list, it is a personal argument and not one for the forum.

Brian
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tmbc

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2007, 10:13:05 am »

THIS Is A BITLONG WINDED BUT I FEEL ITS TO BE SAID !!!
right guys lets be civil about this now ! we've all aired our point on the matter
lets just carry on this season and get the racing out of the way ! wait till the agm and see what happens there !
then next season we can all put our minds to gettin our hobby on the right foot with fast boats and good times ! 
lets not let this rift cause concern let get on with the job in hand and race and have fun !
omra i thought was to promote the sport / hobby not squabble like kids in a school play ground
i have no doubt that the omra committee has its own way of dealing with thing at the agm 
the fact is the sigma was passed as a legal boat !! by omra so there word is and should be final
so come on ALL the people who trying to ban it get your designing heads on and get some thing to compete u got the winter to do it ! (nice winter project)
its a hobby at the end of the day and your meant to enjoy something thats a hobby ! if people enjoy arguing go find a mothers groups and natter with them !

as for sponsorship this is another grey area but remember people in glass houses should throw stones !
people who own model shops / supplies etc ! who race boat this is still classed as sponsorship ! so be it your own company or someone else your promoting your business as soon as your boat is on display or hits the water !
I'm same i promote a club ! I'm a sponsor to an extent but all out of my own pocket !
so if you ban sponsorship think about it you cant use your stock / boat !
this is taking thing too the extreme but at the end of the day people are doing that buy trying to ban boats and sponsorship ! your going to destroy the hobby !  

COME ON GUYS LETS SEE OMRA GROW WITH HELP FROM EACH OTHER NOT DESTROY ITSELf THROUGH STUPID ARGUMENTS !

THINK IVE COVERED ENOUGH ON THE MATTER

c u all at bristol ! with some good racing !   
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kurt cave sikk 27

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2007, 04:53:54 pm »

 O0 just to let everyone know that omra 4 is not danny,but our very own gary,once again gary,well done mate,and i would also like to thank barry at bluefishy78.com for all of his help and surport this year,without it i for one would not of been able to compete in this hobby,i have had the time of my life and made some good freinds,and am looking forward to many more years to come, O0 O0
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martno1fan

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2007, 05:25:08 pm »

my mistake i realised too late hehe,never mind Gary dont let em get you down mate you won and deservedly so by all accounts.You seem to have a lot of suport from Omra members on this site so that should count for something mate.heres to a good end to the season for yaa and good luck for next season too.
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omra85

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2007, 08:54:10 pm »

The real Danny is back ;)

Guys, you really have got wound up over this one - a few FACTS might be in order
First - Gary's boat has been scrutineered at many events and DOES comply with the rules!  I believe it is a SIGMA with specially raised sides in order to comply with OMRA rules, which were not an original Sigma design.
Second - the "freeboard" rule - "All boats (excuding 'specialised designs' such as Tunnel Hulls and Ribs) must have at least 50mm (2 inches) of freeboard, this being the measurement of the maximum distance between the chine rail and deck"  was proposed at the 2005 OMRA AGM by John Hand, seconded by Ian Hayward - voting - 29 in favour, 0 against, 1 abstained.
Third - I have heard NO talk (from any of the OMRA officers) of Gary's Sigma being retrospectively 'banned'!  A LOT of OMRA members would have something to say if an existing, democratically voted rule was changed without either an AGM or SGM proposal being made.  OMRA carefully consider and debate each proposal for a rule change and do NOT then change them 'on a whim'.

To read these some of the previous posts seems to give the impression that OMRA is run by a committee of "faceless" people who come up with rules of their own choosing!  Nothing could be further from the truth.  I have been a member of OMRA for a number of years but have not held any "authoritive" position other than 'ordinary member'.  The officers are fellow model boat racers who have volunteered to help the group by taking on administrative tasks.  They do not make rules but are frequently asked to clarify an interpretation or to give judgement if a certain point is not clearly defined.

I have attended every OMRA AGM for the past few years and out of a membership of around 150, usually about 30 attend.  This gives a reasonable cross section with many diverse views.  The room at Alconbury Rugby Club will hold more and it would be good to see as many OMRA members as possible attend (especially the new ones).  You can have your say, propose rule changes (7 days written notice to the secretary required) and vote on other's proposals.  You will also be able to witness the presentation of the Championship trophies to their worthy winners and even get advance notice of next years calender!

As for sponsorship - this was discussed at great length at the 2006 AGM.  I personally supported it and spoke of the fact that we ALL receive "sponsorship" in one form or another (mine is from my wife, who lets me spend OUR money on boats!).  A sponsored racer has to make a greater commitment in that, not only do they have to attend all the races, but have to do well - otherwise the sponsorship is short-lived.  A model producer also has to do well - otherwise no one will buy their boats and they don't eat!  They also have to develop the next generation (before someone else does) which can make getting good results with a new design difficult!  It's not a JOB that I would like, I much prefer the more relaxed way of doing it as a hobby - there is no pressure to do well at every race (fortunate in my case!)
 
The Windermere confrontation was disgraceful, there will no doubt be much more heard about this at the AGM.  There is NEVER any excuse for physical violence or even threats!

I have no doubt that, if the rules remain the same, Dave may well be receiving a few more orders for the "OMRA compliant" Sigma, just as he will probably be making the lower version for Circuit racers and World Championship contenders.

As there's no such thing as bad publicity, I think that this thread MAY have been raised on heresay rather than facts!  One up to Dave, I think  O0

Danny
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kurt cave sikk 27

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2007, 09:09:18 pm »

 O0 well done danny mate, O0 O0
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omra85

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Re: A few OMRA members trying to ban the Sigma??????
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2007, 09:24:34 pm »

As a 'taster' to the Windermere video (in production) here's a rather poor quality still from the video - it looks much better moving! - and boy, you should see these moving  O0 O0 ;D ;D
Danny
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